Historic Motorcycle Racing

Do you have historic motorcycle road racing in your country ?

Yep.

www.ahrma.org

I raced in '07, '08 & 2010. Sure would like to do so again!

And on a smaller scale USCRA.

http://www.ahrma.org/

Out on the left coast, at one time there was a motley organization called VROOM, which stood for Vintage Racers Of Old Motorcycles, but AHRMA is the only current sanctioning body I know of.

WERA has certain classes that more or less accommodate some AHRMA bikes, but I'm not sure if they've really had much cross-over. Since I haven't raced in years, I haven't kept up.

At one time, I created a cross-over spreadsheet when people were ripped apart over Mid-Ohio, then even further when AHRMA dropped Daytona, but it's a lost cause. It's clear AHRMA is THE premier vintage motorcycling body in the U.S., The AMA retains Mid-Ohio because they have money to burn on ONE event.

Maybe after the egos that caused the AHRMA/AMA split die off, they'll get it back together and it can grow at several OTHER venues, allowing more people to be able to get in a few big races every year instead of the one or two in their region.

In Australia, we have historic racing, bucket racing and BEARs racing. However the concepts are not co-ordinated, so cross-entries at race meetings are not common. Historic and bucket racing are almost the only 'development classes' in Australian road racing. What it effectively means is that you cannot build your own bike and road-race it without falling foul of a host of rules. All road-racing rules are made to cater for bikes which already exist. It stifles innovation. - Not good for the economy. One thing I have found, which Ken (Fullauto) also discovered - it is almost impossible to find a decent foundry these days - they are all going out of business. Chinese and Indian manufactured motors are a good starting point, if you want to build a very nice small-capacity four-stroke race bike.
If you watch that video I posted, there is a guy who made a comment about historic racing rules. Development of an historic racer is often a step towards destroying it's historic value, yet the class encourages it.

Of course there is a balancing point to true HISTORIC racing. The bikes are naturally DECREASING in number, and thus the cost to race them will be forever escalating, and exponentially with many specific bikes.

Couple that with mixed grids (riders of various age groups, and bikes of various class levels) and you invite disaster. An old dude with a very expensive original cammy Manx racing against a young gun on a Molnar, TYPICALLY (not always) means the old dude will be parading and the young guy will be out for blood.

This only scratches the surface of issues related to TRUE historic racing. The cost to police tech violations can be prohibitive.

grandpaul said:

WERA has certain classes that more or less accommodate some AHRMA bikes, but I'm not sure if they've really had much cross-over. Since I haven't raced in years, I haven't kept up.

At one time, I created a cross-over spreadsheet when people were ripped apart over Mid-Ohio, then even further when AHRMA dropped Daytona, but it's a lost cause. It's clear AHRMA is THE premier vintage motorcycling body in the U.S., The AMA retains Mid-Ohio because they have money to burn on ONE event.

Maybe after the egos that caused the AHRMA/AMA split die off, they'll get it back together and it can grow at several OTHER venues, allowing more people to be able to get in a few big races every year instead of the one or two in their region.

Click to expand...

There does seem to be some reform going on and more inclusivity. Hordes of racebikes become obsolete every year, so AHRMA needs to be progressive and welcoming to new enthusiasts. Three bikes can make a class.

Danno said:

There does seem to be some reform going on and more inclusivity. Hordes of racebikes become obsolete every year, so AHRMA needs to be progressive and welcoming to new enthusiasts. Three bikes can make a class.

Click to expand...

AHRMA IS being more progressive and welcoming, they've added "NexGen" classes and have been working on expanding bump-up classes. No question AHRMA is at the forefront in the US, although there is still considerable resistance by the (very) old guard that will never be overcome except by natural selection.

I agree, racer friends of mine are currently working with AHRMA on a new roughly "Next Gen" era type class for mid sized bikes, and AHRMA is finally much more receptive to that thinking. Problem is race days are only just so long and they are already filled, so something's got to give.

pantah_good said:

I agree, racer friends of mine are currently working with AHRMA on a new roughly "Next Gen" era type class for mid sized bikes, and AHRMA is finally much more receptive to that thinking. Problem is race days are only just so long and they are already filled, so something's got to give.

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There are several aspects of AHRMA's administration that require LEGITIMATE adjustments in the interest of fairness to ALL members. Presently, roadracing membership fees are LARGELY subsidising the off-road events. Entry fees are skewed in favor of the off-road crowd. If it was one-for-one across the board for EVERY ENTRANT to every race, the funds accrued could be better used to promote new events at new and previously well-attended venues. Once you get more events going, you get the more crowded events to thin out a bit and spread the participation. It also opens up more opportunity for people who can only afford one or two events a year due to excessive cross-country travel costs (and limited vacation days). One thing leads to anothr, and you get overall healthier growth for the entire organization, not at the undue expense of the roadracers.

grandpaul said:

Of course there is a balancing point to true HISTORIC racing. The bikes are naturally DECREASING in number, and thus the cost to race them will be forever escalating, and exponentially with many specific bikes.

Couple that with mixed grids (riders of various age groups, and bikes of various class levels) and you invite disaster. An old dude with a very expensive original cammy Manx racing against a young gun on a Molnar, TYPICALLY (not always) means the old dude will be parading and the young guy will be out for blood.

This only scratches the surface of issues related to TRUE historic racing. The cost to police tech violations can be prohibitive.

Click to expand...

If you road-race, you are not there to look pretty. I am 76. The last time I raced my Seeley 850, I was up in the lead bunch in every race, but I did not get a good start until the last race when I gritted my teeth and dumped the clutch on a heap of revs, chancing a gearbox blow-up. I turned under the leaders on turn two and was up alongside the front-runner when the fuel line popped off. The lead guys were riding highly-developed 1000cc methanol fuelled Honda CB750s. The problem is not the number of bikes which are available, it is the mentality of the meeting organisers and the controlling body. Looked at sensibly, any bike which is over 30 years old is a classic, under 30 years old - it is modern. In those two groups there are TT bikes - four-stroke singles and twins, And GP bikes -two strokes and multicylinder four strokes. That makes four main TYPES of bike. In the old days we would have run them in 5 capacity classes and ride in our own capacity class and the one above. It would mean a total of 20 races -easily achieved on most circuits in one day. That way we could move away from the historic racing concept and get back to some real racing. In the old days I always rode in All Powers C Grade on a 50's 500cc Triton against all sorts of then-modern 70's bikes and still did fairly well.

I like young guys in road-racing who are out for blood. They usually fall off on the second corner - too slow on the first.