High hopes

comnoz · Feb 24, 2014

Here is the projected power for the new engine I am building for my bike. Jim

Roadrash · Feb 24, 2014

I'm assuming the displacement is 914cc? Those would be very impressive numbers for sure. 76 foot lbs. will get up and go!

comnoz · Feb 24, 2014

Roadrash said:
I'm assuming the displacement is 914cc? Those would be very impressive numbers for sure. 76 foot lbs. will get up and go!

Yes, 914 cc from a 91mm stroke and an 80mm bore. Jim

pete.v · Feb 24, 2014

We need a graph showing the rise of cost per HP and pound feet of torque with stock as a base. I would surely think that the curve would sharpen steeply (or is it steepen sharply) as the HP and torque increase.

worntorn · Feb 24, 2014

I like the rpm range where the best power is made. Shift at around 6 k and you will pick up the next gear right in the sweet spot, much like a stock 850, only a lot more. No need to to rev it to the moon, in fact it will accelerate harder if shifted up rather than holding on for more rpm above 6 k.
Would this number be expected crank HP?

Glen

comnoz · Feb 24, 2014

worntorn said:
I like the rpm range where the best power is made. Shift at around 6 k and you will pick up the next gear right in the sweet spot, much like a stock 850, only a lot more. No need to to rev it to the moon, in fact it will accelerate harder if shifted up rather than holding on for more rpm above 6 k.
Would this number be expected crank HP?

Glen

Yes I would expect it to be very close for crank horsepower. Past experience usually puts the prediction within about 5 percent if the specs that are input are good.

Not DJHP. Jim

Hobot · Feb 24, 2014

Alrighty Jim, finally some high hopes Norton Rocket Science. That's tire spin and wheelie inducing police baiting range. Very childish indigence we all approve of. What would it take to plug Peel engine factors in for a bench racing read out or showing alarms flagged it'd just blow up?

comnoz · Feb 24, 2014

hobot said:
Alrighty Jim, finally some high hopes Norton Rocket Science. That's tire spin and wheelie inducing police baiting range. Very childish indigence we all approve of. What would it take to plug Peel engine factors in for a bench racing read out or showing alarms flagged it'd just blow up?

Bore, stroke, and rod dimensions
chamber volume
head flow at 8 valve lifts, valve and stem sizes
port dimensions and volumes in cc's
intake manifold dimensions and flow efficiency
cam timing and lift at at least 6 points
exhaust dimensions and flow efficiency
operating temperature
swirl or tumble factors for combustion chamber and squish % would be good if you want to generate a timing curve.

And probably a few more things I have forgotten. Download Performance Trends engine analyzer pro trial version and you will see all the things that can be taken into consideration. Jim

Hobot · Feb 24, 2014

Ugh what is a simple pilot to do...
http://performancetrends.com/Engine-Analyzer-Pro.htm

worntorn · Feb 25, 2014

Put it together!

Glen

acotrel · Feb 25, 2014

The software looks good, however it will be interesting to see if what is predicted is what you get when you've built the motor and dyno it. What we need now is an extension to the programme which establishes the requirements for steering geometry and gearing and exhaust configuration and jetting if we type in the google earth map location of the next race circuit. You'd need to type in the specs about the riders' wrist strengths and mental state. It will probably tell you where you would finish in races and that would remove the need to use fuel to find out. We would achieve environmental sustainability.
Actually Henry Ford had this entire programme in 1927 however kept it a closely guarded secret.

comnoz · Feb 25, 2014

acotrel said:
The software looks good, however it will be interesting to see if what is predicted is what you get when you've built the motor and dyno it. What we need now is an extension to the programme which establishes the requirements for steering geometry and gearing and exhaust configuration and jetting if we type in the google earth map location of the next race circuit. You'd need to type in the specs about the riders' wrist strengths and mental state. It will probably tell you where you would finish in races and that would remove the need to use fuel to find out. We would achieve environmental sustainability.
Actually Henry Ford had this entire programme in 1927 however kept it a closely guarded secret.

Actually I have been using this program and it's predecessors for about 15 years. It's normally very close to the dyno readings if you input good specs. It was within 4 horsepower throughout the curve on the 1007 motor I did recently. Jim

Hobot · Feb 25, 2014

The Lotus brand and your Pro level calcuators require too much-many unknown inputs for me to use but the volumetric range Jim's data shows will sure help. The mid level Engine Analizer option looks like I could handle that.

comnoz · Feb 25, 2014

hobot said:
The Lotus brand and your Pro level calcuators require too much-many unknown inputs for me to use but the volumetric range Jim's data shows will sure help. The mid level Engine Analizer option looks like I could handle that.

Keep in mind it takes a lot of work to get the VE's that good. Jim

Hobot · Feb 25, 2014

Your extra massaged flow work was not lost on me so would be down grading for ordinary heads. I want to contract with you someday for a 'WhataBerger' Combat engine scabbed up from factory parts partly my way and partly yours to see what happens again.

acotrel · Feb 25, 2014

comnoz said:
acotrel said:

The software looks good, however it will be interesting to see if what is predicted is what you get when you've built the motor and dyno it. What we need now is an extension to the programme which establishes the requirements for steering geometry and gearing and exhaust configuration and jetting if we type in the google earth map location of the next race circuit. You'd need to type in the specs about the riders' wrist strengths and mental state. It will probably tell you where you would finish in races and that would remove the need to use fuel to find out. We would achieve environmental sustainability.
Actually Henry Ford had this entire programme in 1927 however kept it a closely guarded secret.

Click to expand...

Actually I have been using this program and it's predecessors for about 15 years. It's normally very close to the dyno readings if you input good specs. It was within 4 horsepower throughout the curve on the 1007 motor I did recently. Jim

That is pretty impressive. Was the power curve fully predicted, a 4 horse power error at 3000 RPM is significant ? To set the programme up it must have been a two way street - there must have been a lot of work go into it.

comnoz · Feb 25, 2014

acotrel said:
comnoz said:

acotrel said:

The software looks good, however it will be interesting to see if what is predicted is what you get when you've built the motor and dyno it. What we need now is an extension to the programme which establishes the requirements for steering geometry and gearing and exhaust configuration and jetting if we type in the google earth map location of the next race circuit. You'd need to type in the specs about the riders' wrist strengths and mental state. It will probably tell you where you would finish in races and that would remove the need to use fuel to find out. We would achieve environmental sustainability.
Actually Henry Ford had this entire programme in 1927 however kept it a closely guarded secret.

Click to expand...

Actually I have been using this program and it's predecessors for about 15 years. It's normally very close to the dyno readings if you input good specs. It was within 4 horsepower throughout the curve on the 1007 motor I did recently. Jim

Click to expand...

That is pretty impressive. Was the power curve fully predicted, a 4 horse power error at 3000 RPM is significant ? To set the programme up it must have been a two way street - there must have been a lot of work go into it.

Yes, It does a good job of predicting the whole power curve if the data you enter is correct.

There is a lot of work involved in testing and measuring what you have and then making modifications in the program that are possible to actually do with the parts available [and make it fit on the bike]. You can spend quite a bit of time doing it, but in comparison to the old cut and try method it is much faster and doesn't waste near as many parts.

Of course there is a pretty healthy learning curve involved in using the program proficiently and just about the time you think you have it mastered -they update it.... Jim

swooshdave · Feb 25, 2014

Not to dismiss Jim's awesome work but for the price of the engine I bet you could buy a new Norton 961. :mrgreen:

WZ507 · Feb 26, 2014

swooshdave said:
Not to dismiss Jim's awesome work but for the price of the engine I bet you could buy a new Norton 961. :mrgreen:

Yeah, but then all you'd have is a 961.

comnoz · Feb 26, 2014

WZ507 said:
swooshdave said:

Not to dismiss Jim's awesome work but for the price of the engine I bet you could buy a new Norton 961. :mrgreen:

Click to expand...

Yeah, but then all you'd have is a 961.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

High hopes

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