High capacity oil pumps

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Fast Eddie

Fast Eddie

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In this months ludicrously over the top article about Norvil in Classic Bike, they mention Norvil’s High Capacity oil pump.

What’s the score? Are they any good? Do they deliver any benefits? Anyone used one?
 
As Morgo's Triumph plunger high capacity pump is no different than the Triumph plunger pump used in the 60's then poetic licence seems to be the order of the day with pumps.
 
I have had one on my 850 for many years , I don't know if it offers any advantage , but certainly has not caused any harm .
 
NortonMKIIA850 said:
I remember Norman White saying he couldn't see the point of them ... I suppose he should know!
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Maybe so.

Dave Degens used to say the same about high capacity pumps in Triumphs.

But I found huge benefit in a Morgo rotary pump helping to prevent my 900 NRE equipped Triumph from over heating.

So, maybe there’s no benefit in extra pressure, but I kind a feel more flow (even if it’s just dumped by the open OPRV) and therefore splash, might be a good thing. Lots of important bits are fed by splash. And most of the engine cooling is done by oil splash.

But, like Kommado says, theres a lot of bollox claimed! In the BSA/Tri triple world, fancy high capacity pumps have been failing and destroying engines. Painfully ironic really!

Hence my question about the Norvil pump. I am loath to put my engines life in the hands of one of Les’s snake oil claims.

Unless someone can vouch for them...
 
The pump is the same since 1964 on the inside, higher capacity means what exactly, pressure, volume, much of which depends how fast you spin it.
 
Morgo's plunger pump is just a copy of the Triumph one and performs the same, its their gear pump for Triumphs that is very susceptible to losing prime and also pumps more oil than an unmodified crankcase can cope with that destroys engines.
 
Madnorton said:
The pump is the same since 1964 on the inside, higher capacity means what exactly, pressure, volume, much of which depends how fast you spin it.
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You are not taking into account the effect of ‘Emery Magic’ ....
 
kommando said:
Morgo's plunger pump is just a copy of the Triumph one and performs the same, its their gear pump for Triumphs that is very susceptible to losing prime and also pumps more oil than an unmodified crankcase can cope with that destroys engines.
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Re rotary pump: Agreed. I can’t recall the mods I did to mine to allow the increased flow to dump, but it did work well.

I also worried about the priming issue, but never seemed to see any. On one bike I fitted a plug in the timing cover to allow easy access to the bleed screw cos I was so worried about it. But whenever I bled it, it was bubble free.
 
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I was disappointed by that four page advert - lot’s of promises, some surely on the edge of libelous?

I’d like to know what makes it high capacity.
Externally it looks the same, and to my knowlege the design of the internals hasn’t changed since the ‘evolution’ of the pump designed for the singles which had thinner paddles.

I modded a new twin pump to work on a single and it was superb.
Then 12 months later Andover started offering them!
 
I think this was a Dunstall recommended mod to have thinner gears on the pressure side so that there was less oil to scavenge.. Thinking back I remember reading that the works F750 racers experimented with BMC or Leyland A series oil pumps in the old magneto position .. I think PeterWilliams claimed that it would up the BMEP through enhanced scavenging
 
Yes presumably that as well but I would have to find the interview.. Enhanced cooling would certainly be a worthwhile objective . It so struck me at the time but then the thought of finishing up with a leaky plumbers nightmare ,put me off the idea. My engineering skills are not up to 'works' standard.
 
Duh, where ya been on the previous larger oil pump threads? If ya note feed back above, its the sump side pump down capacity that was improved, not the feed side as not needed d/t crank sling and trickle for head supply. Just shoving more oil in to pile up in head and sump and TS case has been shown to retain/increase heat in engine, not cool it more. May want more feed supply if journals so loose can't oil surf w/o extra help. Comnoz needed 1/3 larger pump after found nil oil pressure from 4 tiny extra holes in his cam lobes. Nortons normally don't need more oil flow/pressure, just cooling in heated operation, which is done by extra volume and coolers, best in head supply.
 
Fast Eddie said:
In this months ludicrously over the top article about Norvil in Classic Bike, they mention Norvil’s High Capacity oil pump.
What’s the score? Are they any good? Do they deliver any benefits? Anyone used one?
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Not read the article, do they just mean putting a 6 start worm on in place of the original 3 start?
 
Why not increase the rotational speed of the pump along with thinner pressure side gears? ie give it as many starts as a cat has lives..
 
As I see it, the only advantage to increased oil pump capacity, is to maintain full oil pressure at low rpm's. Once the OPRV opens, any excess capacity is simply costing you hp to pump around.

Oil pressure, as little as 20 psi, gets the oil where it is needed. Oil film strength, typically 110,000 psi, prevents metal to metal contact.

Slick
 
Bernhard said:
Not read the article, do they just mean putting a 6 start worm on in place of the original 3 start?
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No information other than it has “superior performance... is well worth fitting... gives extra peace of mind for £203.40”

This is not Emery’s words in an ad, it’s the CB writers words ....
 
Stock 6 start pump is sufficient to supply journals and head at any rpm, so only oil starved area would be the cam/lobes/lifters that only extra drain down lifter bevel gaps and crank/rods spray can help, not more pressure. After 6 start pumps installed its the drain down and pump out capacity that limits Commando oil flow volumes to solve. Shit I've forgotten how many times I've lied to women to sell them peace of mind but not the real facts of situation. There's bout a dozen things that can be done to make factory pump seal better for slightly more efficiency/flow but mainly done for wet sump stifling when shut down cold. Shit I've forgotten the number of times women have lied to me for my peace of mind til finding out real situation : (
 
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