Headlight warning lights protrude too far into headlight shell ?

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Staytite

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Following my questions on "Headlight switch wiring" I have found another problem; With the warning light lenses (06.6424) and associated
bulb holders (99.1207) fitted into their holes in the headlight shell (99.7039) and the headlight Lucas (LUB383), in its rim, is inserted into the
shell the warning lights are pushed up and out. On closer inspection it can be seen that even without wires attached to the warning light bulb
holders the tang/blades touch the brown coated glass of the head light.

I do not remember ever having tis problem in the past 40 years !

Perhaps the Lucas LUB 383 is not correct ?
Is there an alternative headlight that has a shallower profile?

Have others had this problem ?

Has anybody found suitable shorter warning light len/bulbs?

Thanks
 
Not genuine Lucas but Wassell Lucas so possibly different from NOS Lucas, I use Cibie lens that takes Halogen and was the better lens back in the day. Fits but even then it takes some careful assembly to keep the warning lights from being pushed up.
 
Staytite

There is also a shallower option using a Wipac Quadoptic headlight unit which takes the P43t H4 bulb.
These are available from Paul Goff and AES autoelectrical in the UK.
I have one of these on my bike with one of Paul Goff's DAYLIGHTER H4 4K LED headlight bulbs.
Wiring is a bit 'tight' with this larger LED so I replaced the Lucas unit (prob original) which was losing some silvering.

It's also worth investigating if you can shorten the warning light bulbholders slightly by judicious use of a file or hacksaw - but with the bulbs still fitting ok.

I wondered if anything else has changed as this has not been a problem previously?

Andy
 
Staytite said:
With the warning light lenses (06.6424) and associated
bulb holders (99.1207) fitted into their holes in the headlight shell (99.7039) and the headlight Lucas (LUB383), in its rim, is inserted into the
shell the warning lights are pushed up and out.
Click to expand...



The bulb holder wires should connect directly to the holders as the AN headlamp harness, below, has...

Norton Spare Parts - Genuine Norton Parts - Norton Motor - Norton Motorcycle - Norton Commando

Norton Spare Parts: We manufacture parts in our own workshops. We measure, test and inspect a selection of components from all inward deliveries.
andover-norton.co.uk
Headlight warning lights protrude too far into headlight shell ?

...Not spade connectors.

Norton Spare Parts - Genuine Norton Parts - Norton Motor - Norton Motorcycle - Norton Commando

Norton Spare Parts: We manufacture parts in our own workshops. We measure, test and inspect a selection of components from all inward deliveries.
andover-norton.co.uk
Headlight warning lights protrude too far into headlight shell ?
 
Hi LAB
Thank you for the photos. I have the warning lights as per your lower photo. They have not given a problem
in other bikes so maybe I've been using the Quadoptics previously as per Andy's (thanks) suggestion?

I have the rubber washers on the WL bodies which lift them out of the shell a mm or so which helps.

Interesting that the bulb holders on the AN wiring loom are pre-wired without 6mm tabs. I wonder if they can be bought separately?
And do they fit the warning light bodies in the lower photo?

I'd still be interested in using a shorter warning light as I'm now considering having only one WL for the ignition on function.
Anybody have experience of non standard WL which fit the 12mm holes ?

Thanks
 
Timely post. I too am struggling with these fittings.
It appears there is a rubber washer, #22, that fits between the lense and the rubber shield.
I'm guessing these will take up some slack and tighten things up.

andover-norton.co.uk

Andover Norton Parts Drawings - Andover Norton Factory Parts - Commando Parts

Andover Norton Parts are the only Norton spare parts in the market manufactured to original drawings, within the factory-approved tolerances, from the correct materials, and with the correct finish.
andover-norton.co.uk
 
L.A.B. said:
The bulb holder wires should connect directly to the holders as the AN headlamp harness, below, has...

...Not spade connectors.
Click to expand...

So, the harness comes with wired bulb holders but the separate bulb holders have spades?
 
maylar said:
So, the harness comes with wired bulb holders but the separate bulb holders have spades?
Click to expand...

Yes, the bulb holders seem to have been included with the headlamp harness (15) as they don't have a part number, only the 'lenses' and bulbs were separate items, also, the charge warning bulb holder connects directly to the harness.

The parts diagram does show one 'loose' bulb holder but it has no item or part number.
Headlight warning lights protrude too far into headlight shell ?
 
I'm going make a guess here and suggest #19a, spade holder is a repair item.
Doesn't appear in the original, factory parts list.
 
All measurements made with digital micrometer caliper

I measured a standard warning light lens (19 = 06.6426) with rubber washer (99.1210), bulb holder (19a = 99.1207) and bulb (BA7) inserted.
It is 42mm from the underside of the rubber washer (fits to outside surface of headlight shell) to the tip of the 6mm spade connector.

I have also measured the distance from the outside of the headlamp shell to the outer of the glass of the headlamp. It is 38.5mm.

Little wonder the warning lights are pushed out of the shell by the glass, even without connectors attached to the 6mm tabs!

Where am I going wrong or does everybody bend the 6mm tabs 90degrees?
 
A shallower headlamp, as DevonNorton mentioned. The Wipac is shallower than a Lucas.

edit: Bending the tabs would be an option. I don't think you'd have room for the mating connector otherwise.
 
Last edited:
Staytite said:
I measured a standard warning light lens (19 = 06.6426) with rubber washer (99.1210), bulb holder (19a = 99.1207) and bulb (BA7) inserted.
It is 42mm from the underside of the rubber washer (fits to outside surface of headlight shell) to the tip of the 6mm spade connector.

Where am I going wrong or does everybody bend the 6mm tabs 90degrees?
Click to expand...

Well, "everybody" won't have over-length bulb holders with tabs so you probably will have to 'modify' (bend/cut?) them unless you want to persue the shallower headlamp option with additional and what seems unnecessary expense as the longer bulb holders seem to be the cause of the problem!

I thought it had already been established that the replacement bulb holders sold by AN with tabs are not original and therefore substantially longer than they would otherwise be.

The standard fitted length would be approximately 30mm (Triumph shown, but similar Lucas headlamp assembly and warning lamp parts).
Headlight warning lights protrude too far into headlight shell ?
 
Staytite said:
Following my questions on "Headlight switch wiring" I have found another problem; With the warning light lenses (06.6424) and associated
bulb holders (99.1207) fitted into their holes in the headlight shell (99.7039) and the headlight Lucas (LUB383), in its rim, is inserted into the
shell the warning lights are pushed up and out. On closer inspection it can be seen that even without wires attached to the warning light bulb
holders the tang/blades touch the brown coated glass of the head light.

I do not remember ever having tis problem in the past 40 years !

Perhaps the Lucas LUB 383 is not correct ?
Is there an alternative headlight that has a shallower profile?

Have others had this problem ?

Has anybody found suitable shorter warning light len/bulbs?

Thanks
Click to expand...
The current Lucas sockets have two spade terminals that must be bent away from each other to about 45 degree or they will hit the beam unit. Worse is if you have a new Lucas beam unit - they are deeper than the original. Today, I use the Lucas warning light sockets and don't use the socket that comes with them - I use the the original sockets and I'm scrounging them from where I can.

I've also wired LEDs and used RTV to hold them in the new sockets - that gives even more clearance than the originals and if I ever have time Ill start producing them for sale.
 
I had the same problem with my 1970 BSA Lightning. My 1971 750 Commando has what I assume is the original headlight loom. It is identical to the photo L.A.B. posted ie ample room. My New parts for the BSA had spade terminals that protruded vertically down and hit the reflector on assembly. I solved the problem by carefully bending the male spade terminals on the bulb holders to be in a horizontal position.
 
These from AN are Lucas. AN sells just the holder, just the socket, and the combination. A new set (3 colors) of the combination is about $90 including shipping and exchange rate to the US. I recommend buying just the holder and using your existing sockets if you can. Otherwise, PM me. I sell the combination sets (3 colors) or combination singles (one color) for WAY less, than half of AN delivered to the US. I don't have just the bulb holders. I can supply them with no bulbs (like AN) or with white LEDs or with match color LEDs. If you use LEDs for the turn signals, you'll need to do some additional work that I can explain.
 
MichaelB said:
The wires appear to be the wrong color.......
Click to expand...
They are, but that's somewhat less confusing if using LEDs. They are designed to be universal for negative ground bikes so LEDs will work when black=negative and red=positive. That works out for our positive ground bikes where red is ground (positive). Whether or not using LEDs:

On a standard positive ground bike for the green indicator the red goes to ground (other red wires) and the black to blue/white .

On a standard positive ground bike for the red indicator the red goes to the white/brown (Norton, newer Triumphs) or red/green (older Triumphs) and the black to white. For this indicator, the ground comes from the assimilator or oil pressure switch.

On a standard positive ground bike for the amber indicator when using LEDs and two diodes, the red goes to ground (other red wires) and the black goes to the diodes. When using a standard bulb,
you ignore the wire colors and connect one to green/white and one to green/red.
 
Last edited:
Sorry for bringing an old thread up but having this problem with the idiot lights hitting the headlight. I’m thinking of shorting the cases plus bending the blade at right angles. Next step would be to find right angle connectors to tidy up the wiring harness inside the shell. Anyone one had success trying these mods
 
ozcruiser said:
Sorry for bringing an old thread up but having this problem with the idiot lights hitting the headlight. I’m thinking of shorting the cases plus bending the blade at right angles. Next step would be to find right angle connectors to tidy up the wiring harness inside the shell. Anyone one had success trying these mods
Click to expand...
Right angle connectors and bend the tabs out to about 45 degrees if you have the modern sockets. Also, you made have bought a beam unit made wrong - some are simply too deep.
 


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