Great ride on my '66 today, all systems working great

gpzkat · May 19, 2024

My '66 (or possibly '67, serial 119799) project has been quite a journey, from a reasonably complete pile to a nice rider. This forum has helped me so much, so thanks to all who have advised me. The bike runs great, the last efforts being timing and carb fiddling. Now it starts first kick most times (my skill being the decider), idles well, stops and shifts well, and generally behaves. Today I rode for a couple of hours and then handed it over to my teenage son to go for a nice long ride.

I don't need to do anything more, but the single Mikuni's days may be numbered. I found a 389/689 237 monobloc set that has the original air filter housing which is complete and even has chromed side covers. The Mikuni has a rubber mounting flange that chokes the intake down to 32mm and has only an inch of room for a sock filter. I'll see how the Amals go, it's a fun side project and they should be good.

Pics are fun so here's one, even if it's a repost.

Great ride on my '66 today, all systems working great

Onder · May 20, 2024

I went to a 74 Commando disc on my RE Interceptor, best thing ever. I can ride around now in much greater
ease and safety. And it doesn't look out of place as it replaced a stock Norton double leading shoe.
Add in the smaller master of course.
Lots of guys ask why I bother with old bikes when new ones are fast, reliable and comfy. Well, look at your
pix....

Schwany · May 21, 2024

Good luck with the old Amals project. They'll keep you busy.

Your bike is looking good.

gpzkat · May 21, 2024

Schwany said:
Good luck with the old Amals project. They'll keep you busy.

Your bike is looking good.

Yes a single Mikuni certainly makes things simpler.

Schwany · May 22, 2024

gpzkat said:
Yes a single Mikuni certainly makes things simpler.

Some of my douchebag commentary:

Amals are simple, the stock jetting works well enough, but the old ones are in my experience bolt on eventual frustration. Obviously, I'm not a what Norton did is best stalwart.

You could modify that single Mikuni manifold on your '66 so that it flows more air. Get rid of that bolt on mounted boot connection, open up the entry throat of the manifold to whatever you think it should be (34mm or more), shape the outside of the mount into a spigot mount and use 1.5" automotive or aircraft fuel filler hose to make the connection. That's what hack saws, metal files, Dremels or die grinders are for. Easy peazy. It would still be a single carbureted engine, but it might work slightly better.

gpzkat · May 22, 2024

Schwany said:
Some of my douchebag commentary:

Amals are simple, the stock jetting works well enough, but the old ones are in my experience bolt on eventual frustration. Obviously, I'm not a what Norton did is best stalwart.

You could modify that single Mikuni manifold on your '66 so that it flows more air. Get rid of that bolt on mounted boot connection, open up the entry throat of the manifold to whatever you think it should be (34mm or more), shape the outside of the mount into a spigot mount and use 1.5" automotive or aircraft fuel filler hose to make the connection. That's what hack saws, metal files, Dremels or die grinders are for. Easy peazy. It would still be a single carbureted engine, but it might work slightly better.

Yeah I was also thinking about a new flange-mount 932(?) Concentric - which seems hard to find, or a 930. Seems to me that would at least fit better and allow a pancake air filter. I got the monoblocs and filter housing for pretty cheap, and another guy gave me a parts carb off a BSA which has most of the stuff I'm missing, just the cutaway to the slide is 3.5 not 3. I only have experience with Concentrics on past bikes, never had a problem so maybe I'm the lucky kind.

Schwany · May 22, 2024

Most Norton owners are over the moon happy with Amal carburetion. Dual 930's work. They do not work as well as twin 35mm FCRs or twin 34mm Mikuni carburetors in my experience, but they can certainly be made to work.

I had a 750 Commando with a single monoblock on it. Not sure if that was a factory option or somebody got and installed an old manifold and monoblock because they could not figure out how to keep a set of 930's tuned and in sync. Anyway, it was nice to ride, but lacked power. My P11 was noticeably quicker with dual 930's on it. I traded that old Commando in on a new '87 VFR700. I paid $750 for the Commando and I think they gave me $800 in trade, and screwed me on retail for the VFR of course. I didn't care I was actually glad to get rid of the Commando without dealing with selling it. Point is don't put a small single Amal on a 750 Norton engine. It sure as heck won't be better than the Mikuni you have.

I think you should put that luck to the test and make the monoblocks work.

gpzkat · May 22, 2024

Schwany said:
Most Norton owners are over the moon happy with Amal carburetion. Dual 930's work. They do not work as well as twin 35mm FCRs or twin 34mm Mikuni carburetors in my experience, but they can certainly be made to work.

I had a 750 Commando with a single monoblock on it. Not sure if that was a factory option or somebody got and installed an old manifold and monoblock because they could not figure out how to keep a set of 930's tuned and in sync. Anyway, it was nice to ride, but lacked power. My P11 was noticeably quicker with dual 930's on it. I traded that old Commando in on a new '87 VFR700. I paid $750 for the Commando and I think they gave me $800 in trade, and screwed me on retail for the VFR of course. I didn't care I was actually glad to get rid of the Commando without dealing with selling it. Point is don't put a small single Amal on a 750 Norton engine. It sure as heck won't be better than the Mikuni you have.

I think you should put that luck to the test and make the monoblocks work.

Yes, that's the plan. It runs well with the Mikuni so the Amal setup is a side project, if it works out, great. If not I can still ride. With the tall gearing I chose, 65 to 70 is a sweet spot. I am happy with how it cruises, the vibes are not bad.

I'm going to insert some foam in the too-soft repro seat. I had a Suzuki with a very soft seat, and I cut up a cheap garden knee pad and put it under the existing foam. So I may try that. I do have wet-sumping going on but I got a drain plug with a secondary bolt, so I drain it into a pickle jar and pour the oil back into the tank. In the grand scheme of things, I'm happy that it's not blowing smoke, blowing up, or leaking all over the place.

Schwany · May 23, 2024

gpzkat said:
Yes, that's the plan. It runs well with the Mikuni so the Amal setup is a side project, if it works out, great. If not I can still ride. With the tall gearing I chose, 65 to 70 is a sweet spot. I am happy with how it cruises, the vibes are not bad.

I'm going to insert some foam in the too-soft repro seat. I had a Suzuki with a very soft seat, and I cut up a cheap garden knee pad and put it under the existing foam. So I may try that. I do have wet-sumping going on but I got a drain plug with a secondary bolt, so I drain it into a pickle jar and pour the oil back into the tank. In the grand scheme of things, I'm happy that it's not blowing smoke, blowing up, or leaking all over the place.

Good cruise MPH for a sweet spot in California.

Soft seats are the worst monkey butt generators.

My hands definitely got a bit numb around mile 300 on a long ride on the P11. I have not been on a long ride since installing the RGM clutch or with the current engine and gearbox configuration. Hope to get at least one long ride in this summer.

Doing the dribble out of the sump pre-ride is probably the best solution for wet sumping.

If you don't already know this, the pre-Commando 750 engine is relatively tough and keeps on ticking unless really beat hard, like 60 mph in 2nd gear all the time hard.

If you are running a wet clutch, your Norton won't disappoint on producing a leak. Just give it some time.

gpzkat · May 23, 2024

Schwany said:
Good cruise MPH for a sweet spot in California.

Soft seats are the worst monkey butt generators.

My hands definitely got a bit numb around mile 300 on a long ride on the P11. I have not been on a long ride since installing the RGM clutch or with the current engine and gearbox configuration. Hope to get at least one long ride in this summer.

Doing the dribble out of the sump pre-ride is probably the best solution for wet sumping.

If you don't already know this, the pre-Commando 750 engine is relatively tough and keeps on ticking unless really beat hard, like 60 mph in 2nd gear all the time hard.

If you are running a wet clutch, your Norton won't disappoint on producing a leak. Just give it some time.

That's reassuring about the engine being tough. Since it's so 'rorty' I've wondered how it'll hold together. I am always listening to the engine (can't help it!) and I heard it get loud and 'clacky' a couple of times. Once, the exhaust lock ring on the right side backed itself out. I tightened it while it was hot and haven't had any problems since. The other time I was pulling up to a stop and heard a racket. I thought it may be the gearbox being between gears, but it didn't diminish as I slowed down. Then I thought maybe there's a very loose valve adjuster or pushrod clanking. Did it dislodge? It was within 50 miles of the rebuild, and I was seeing temps of 350F at the bottom of the barrels and exhaust area after a ride (now under 300F). I sat a bit contemplating this and let it cool down, and no noises since. I probably have only about 400 miles on it now and it hasn't made any interesting noises.

gpzkat · May 23, 2024

Onder said:
I went to a 74 Commando disc on my RE Interceptor, best thing ever. I can ride around now in much greater
ease and safety. And it doesn't look out of place as it replaced a stock Norton double leading shoe.
Add in the smaller master of course.
Lots of guys ask why I bother with old bikes when new ones are fast, reliable and comfy. Well, look at your
pix....

Got a pic? Yeah the disc is a good mod. I have the original single leading shoe but it's just not good enough. Been there. My brother had a OIF Triumph with a conical and it stopped pretty well. But with this disc I can outdo the tire's grip at any speed, and feel where it is breaking free. It looks fine to me, nobody knows what year it is anyway or what brake came on it, at least where I live. The point is to ride, and live.

Schwany · May 24, 2024

gpzkat said:
That's reassuring about the engine being tough. Since it's so 'rorty' I've wondered how it'll hold together. I am always listening to the engine (can't help it!) and I heard it get loud and 'clacky' a couple of times. Once, the exhaust lock ring on the right side backed itself out. I tightened it while it was hot and haven't had any problems since. The other time I was pulling up to a stop and heard a racket. I thought it may be the gearbox being between gears, but it didn't diminish as I slowed down. Then I thought maybe there's a very loose valve adjuster or pushrod clanking. Did it dislodge? It was within 50 miles of the rebuild, and I was seeing temps of 350F at the bottom of the barrels and exhaust area after a ride (now under 300F). I sat a bit contemplating this and let it cool down, and no noises since. I probably have only about 400 miles on it now and it hasn't made any interesting noises.

Seeing how your sump plug is easily assessable, you might want to drop it and check the sump screen to see if there is anything in it. Every time I've rebuilt my motor, 4 times, I find small bits of sealer in that screen. If you don't already have one, install a spin on oil filter adapter if you can find a place for it. Most put them on the return line. Contrary to popular interweb wisdom they work on either the feed or return side. I switched mine from the feed side after 30 years to the return side so I could fit in with the experts. Ha. I have space behind my engine. I'm not sure about your frame. My filter bracket is held on by the pivot bolt at the bottom of the gearbox. I think my filter kit was about $19.95 when I bought it. Now filter kits, like everything else, are ridiculously priced. I think they are a good investment though.

My motor was really quiet for a while, then the oil pressure gauge line blew off on the Hwy. I noticed my left leg was getting unusually warm, then looked at my oil pressure gauge. Yikes!! I had the parts to eliminate that damn gauge with me, so I fixed it and headed back home after starting the engine. I still had plenty of oil in the oil tank. Anyway, it's a little louder now, but they are noisy in general eventually. Listen to videos where the camera gets close to a running engine on a Norton that has several thousand miles on it. They sound like hell compared to a Suzuki or any modern engine. Doesn't stop them from running though. Like a high performance pull start lawn mower.

gpzkat · May 24, 2024

Schwany said:
Seeing how your sump plug is easily assessable, you might want to drop it and check the sump screen to see if there is anything in it. Every time I've rebuilt my motor, 4 times, I find small bits of sealer in that screen. If you don't already have one, install a spin on oil filter adapter if you can find a place for it. Most put them on the return line. Contrary to popular interweb wisdom they work on either the feed or return side. I switched mine from the feed side after 30 years to the return side so I could fit in with the experts. Ha. I have space behind my engine. I'm not sure about your frame. My filter bracket is held on by the pivot bolt at the bottom of the gearbox. I think my filter kit was about $19.95 when I bought it. Now filter kits, like everything else, are ridiculously priced. I think they are a good investment though.

My motor was really quiet for a while, then the oil pressure gauge line blew off on the Hwy. I noticed my left leg was getting unusually warm, then looked at my oil pressure gauge. Yikes!! I had the parts to eliminate that damn gauge with me, so I fixed it and headed back home after starting the engine. I still had plenty of oil in the oil tank. Anyway, it's a little louder now, but they are noisy in general eventually. Listen to videos where the camera gets close to a running engine on a Norton that has several thousand miles on it. They sound like hell compared to a Suzuki or any modern engine. Doesn't stop them from running though. Like a high performance pull start lawn mower.

I have dumped out the break-in oil - who knows whether that makes a difference but it did no harm, and also changed it when I got the new drain plug, so 2x in a few hundred miles. The screen didn't have much in it, as I remember. If it were otherwise I'd have remembered. I was very economical with the Hondabond 4, and there's been none of that stuff. I took the oil tank off and cleaned it out both times. It was fine. I am researching a filter, where to mount. But so far oil's well.

Oh, and on Suzukis - I have had half a dozen of them 850, 1000, 1100, and they are extremely robust engines. The charging system's a weak point and many upgrade them, but I've never had a problem. The Suzuki GS crowd are frugal to be sure, and get lots of bang for the buck.

Schwany · May 25, 2024

gpzkat said:
I have dumped out the break-in oil - who knows whether that makes a difference but it did no harm, and also changed it when I got the new drain plug, so 2x in a few hundred miles. The screen didn't have much in it, as I remember. If it were otherwise I'd have remembered. I was very economical with the Hondabond 4, and there's been none of that stuff. I took the oil tank off and cleaned it out both times. It was fine. I am researching a filter, where to mount. But so far oil's well.

Oh, and on Suzukis - I have had half a dozen of them 850, 1000, 1100, and they are extremely robust engines. The charging system's a weak point and many upgrade them, but I've never had a problem. The Suzuki GS crowd are frugal to be sure, and get lots of bang for the buck.

Sounds perfect.

I've owned 4 Suzuki motorcycles. No problems with the electronics, but I didn't hold onto them that long. Longest was maybe 2 years. Wish I still had one of them. The Katana 1100 was a good all around motorcycle albeit a bit heavy. The GSXRs were fun, but would not be practical for me now. The '83 750GS I had was an ill handling turd. Did not care for that one.

I didn't use Yama or Hondabond when assembling the Norton. That stuff stays put. What I used squeezes out a little and isn't as firm.

gpzkat · May 25, 2024

Schwany said:
Sounds perfect.

I've owned 4 Suzuki motorcycles. No problems with the electronics, but I didn't hold onto them that long. Longest was maybe 2 years. Wish I still had one of them. The Katana 1100 was a good all around motorcycle albeit a bit heavy. The GSXRs were fun, but would not be practical for me now. The '83 750GS I had was an ill handling turd. Did not care for that one.

I didn't use Yama or Hondabond when assembling the Norton. That stuff stays put. What I used squeezes out a little and isn't as firm.

I think I only used Hondabond on the case halves. I did an hour ride this morning and I'm amazed how little vibration there is at the bars, and only a bit of buzz at the pegs. Geared tall helps.

I know it's a Norton forum but can't help my blasphemy - I picked these two up for cheap and restored them in around 2002. I think I paid 500 for the 82 GPz1100 and 1500 for the 82 Katana 1000. The Katana's owner was in prison and I bought it from his brother. in '04 I sold them to a Japanese guy who probably shipped back to the mother country as they are quite sought after. He was very excited. I was moving to Australia and didn't know if I'd ever return.

I bored the Kawi out to 1165 and it was super to ride, the fuel injection didn't seem to care that the displacement was increased. Probably the bike I miss the most as it fit me perfectly, looked cool, rode great and was fast and comfy. Handling meh, Suzukis better. The Katana was so long, even for me at 6'3" tall it was a bit of a torture rack. It had pods, Kerker pipe and Fox reservoir shocks, had only 10K miles on it.

Schwany · May 26, 2024

I agree about the taller gearing helping with the vibes. HWY cruising is much better.

I'm not a Norton snob. Bring the blasphemy.

Very clean restorations.

I had a later 1988 or '89 Katana, it was Maroon and full faired with a better frame than the earlier models. I may have put bar back risers on it. I'm 5' 9" and shrinking. I also had a Kawaski ZX-10 for a couple of months. Talk about long and stretched out. Had to get rid of that thing. Sold it and got a Yamaha FZR-1000. The list goes on. Not bragging. It's just a hobby.

o0norton0o · May 26, 2024

gpzkat said:
I am researching a filter, where to mount. But so far oil's well.

My '70 commando didn't have an oil filter, so I did this... It's got a fine particle filter and an internal magnet, mounted on the oil return line..

Transmission filter return line install for a '70 model central oil tank

In the never ending saga to have more modifications on my 70 commando than anyone, I added a transmission filter to my return oil line. It was a simple project who's details were recommended by Jim Comstock as a alternative to adding the late model filter kit parts... Parts: NAPA Automatic...

www.accessnorton.com

74ok · May 26, 2024

someone sell that manifold?

gpzkat said:
Yes a single Mikuni certainly makes things simpler.

gpzkat · May 27, 2024

74ok said:
someone sell that manifold?

The one on the Suzuki is an ATP/Mr. Turbo, was a kit you could buy back then. Kawasaki dealer sold the KZ1000 Z1-R TC in 78/79. My '82 GS1100E was taken new from the dealer and outfitted by Don Vesco's shop. It dyno'ed at 184HP at the rear wheel on pump gas on a sweltering day. I ditched the huge S&S Super B carb which was toast and put on a Mikuni HSR42, which was sort of smallish, 48 Keihin would have been better but I was on a budget and that's enough HP anyway. That bike spent most of its life at El Mirage and Bonneville, 184 MPH was its best, not bad for a street legal bike.

Thomasa · May 28, 2024

Back to the subject of Monoblocks: The reason I ditched mine on the Atlas in favor of concentrics was that it wouldn't idle on the side stand. Not too long after I made the switch the side stand lug broke so I was back to using the center stand. It stayed that way for 20 odd years. I finally bought a lug and pulled the primary to change it. Idles either way now. The only really fast bike I had was a 69 CB750 Honda. It was faster than either Norton I own as I was able to outrun a 396 Chevelle uphill on 101 at 120 plus. Just slip the clutch to get it up on the cam again when you hit 5th gear. That much I remember.