greasing isolastics

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Hobot, that guy said he spent 10 hours on the job. The rear isos aren't even visible in the video. I looked at my friend's engine-less Commando and it still looks like it would be difficult to just get my fingers in there.
1up, thanks for the offer.
It doesn't look like rocket science, but "fiddly" sounds like "minor assembly required" on stuff at stores.
I rebuilt and installed the rear suspension on my E-type (alone). I wouldn't call that "fiddly" but I wouldn't want to do that again either.
If anybody at the rally wants to do a tech demonstration on how to replace rear isolastics on a Commando, I will offer my bike for the demo....
 
I'm back home and here's the write up directly from my log re the rear ISO. Keep in mind these are notes to myself but should give the idea of exactly what I did.

"1 April - removed rear ISO Mount - turned out to be a MK III buffer set with vernier adjuster. It didn’t look too bad at all but donuts were compressed a bit in one direction. The method I used to remove it was: Remove tank and side covers, remove air filter remove primary chain case, remove side pieces of head steady, put bike on side stand. Place jack under engine frame with slight up pressure, remove ISO mount bolt. (Carb slides had to be removed due to insufficient cable slack to lower engine.) Lower jack so engine/cradle drops so that it is now resting on the frame. Entire buffer unit can be pushed out from right side to left side with a socket/extension as a drift. "
 
Thanks, Mike 996. That sounds very doable. I assume you removed the primary inner case.
I'll ignore the shop manual, listen to you guys on this forum and use some common sense.
I will remind myself that it is a good time to look at the clutch plates, upgrade the alternator, listen to the radio, think happy thoughts.
 
I assume you removed the primary inner case.

why?

why go through all that to remove something that is not necessary to remove?

because it looks visually like you cannot remove the ISO bits and pieces without it removed?

that must be the conclusion

ok, I can see that a complete removal of the primary would make it easier to remove and put back the the ISO stuff but why go through all that primary stuff if you simply do have have to?

Yes, you can angle the rubbers and end cap stuff on and off with some easy common sense

earlier someone was saying it was necessary to remove the swing arm and someone else said the lower gear box bolt to be loosened......what? ok then, why not remove the turn signals and front tire also then?
 
"why?

why go through all that to remove something that is not necessary to remove?"

What item are you saying does not need to be removed? The only way to remove the iso donuts is to have access to the iso tube; the only way to do that is to either follow the Norton instruction manual or drop the rear of the engine cradle enough to allow access to the iso tube. There is no other way to get the donuts out. If you are saying the donuts don't need to come out, well, that depends on how long they have been in there.

I was the one that said, INCORRECTLY, that I removed the swing arm. I did not remove it for the ISO replacement. I made that response totally from memory and obviously crossed it with some other procedure I have done - maybe swingarm bushings or tranny removal/rebuild/replacement. I apologize for any confusion I may have caused with that.

Re the inner chain case - Yes, inner/outer chaincase has to be removed to allow engine cradle to rotate down in rear.
 
Re the inner chain case - Yes, inner/outer chaincase has to be removed to allow engine cradle to rotate down in rear.

ok Mike

apparently you found it necessary to remove the entire primary in order to proceed further

I am not disagreeing with you because certainly what you did made the job easier, for you

perhaps others taking this job on will simply consider that not only myself on four different Commandos but also others posting here did not find it necessary to do what you went through
 
I really do want to upgrade the alternator to 3-phase at some point. I've had one on the shelf for a couple of years. I'd like to disassemble the clutch mostly for inspection. I'm riding an unrestored '74 Commando with a dubious history of maintenance and repairs. The front end handled poorly and old oil lines were brittle; oil leaked from various places, etc. I rebuilt the front end and was glad I did because of water in one fork and sludge in the other, bad fork stem bearings, crud in the brake caliper, etc. I've replaced the wiring harness because of some previous bad repairs, corroded connections, etc. Tires were replaced with new and new wheel bearings were installed. The mikuni carb was bad, so I replaced it. The bike now starts and runs well, handles well, but it does vibrate a bit below 3000 rpm. I am assuming the isolastic bushes are due for replacement for no other reason than the age of them and the sad shape of the gaitors. This is the method to my madness. I'm working my way through the bike from front to back instead of from ground up, sort of. I hope this gives you an idea of how I'm approaching this bike. This way, I can spend one day working on one part of the bike and ride it until I tackle the next problem. This way, I am getting to know the ins and outs of these bikes. I hope to eventually have a good reliable, fairly stock and original rider, not a shiny show bike or a hot rodded racer.
My zen is a few hours in the shop, then go riding.
 
Mike, I will probably tackle the swing arm eventually, too. I suspect that previous owners used the grease zerks to grease the bushes instead of oiling them. As best as I could tell, the swing arm isn't loose or wobbly (yet).
 
Here's some instructions I saved from a long time ago thread. Looks like he did all the work between the frame and the cradle without removing engine/primary/cradle parts. I don't know because I haven't done it except when I had the cradle out so I can't vouch for the procedure, but he lays it all out. If you searched for some of the specific words, you may find the thread and thus the author. Good luck.

"Put the bike on the center stand.
Remove the power take-off socket for better access to the Iso mount.
Remove LH side nut from Rear Iso Stud and pound out through the right side; use a drift to get it all the way out.
Remove gaiters, collars, PTFE washers, end caps, and shims.
Now you will have access to the innards of the Iso between the frame and the Iso mount - not much space, but enough to squeeze the rubber bits by.
Dig out the first rubber bush from the RH side.
Pull out the buffer on the spacer.
Dig out the center bush from the RH side.
Dig out the end bush from the LH side
Pull out the 2nd buffer/spacer

Once everything is out, scrape out any old rubber residue that may have bonded to the Iso tube. A screwdriver works fine. Use a baby-bottle brush with some carb cleaner, dousing the inside of the tube and scrubbing it clean. Wipe out the mount by pulling a rag through and making sure it is totally dry.

Then:

Insert a new bush into the edge of the RH side.
Using a drift (a socket works great), push it into the Iso tube so the end of the centerpiece of the bush is just flush with the edge of the Iso tube (flush alignment is IMPORTANT).
Assemble the new gaiter, collar, PTFE washer, and end cap back on the Iso mount on the RH side. (Note: I purchased the Hemmings vernier adjusters from Old Britts, which do not require any shims on either side. If you are using old Norton shimming "technology", I suggest you take note of the shims you initially removed, and replace now with new shims of the same thickness as a starting point).

Pushing the main stud back through as you add new bits will keep everything aligned. Begin driving the stud back through from right to left, through the z-plate and spacer, then into the gaiter/collar/washer/end cap and continuing through the first bush. Have a friend sight through from the left side to tell when the stud has reached the end of the bush and stop there.
Insert a buffer on a spacer from the left side then push the stud through this buffer/spacer.
Insert from the left the center bush, then push the stud.
Insert the 2nd buffer/spacer, then push the stud.
Finally insert the last bush on the end of the LH side and push the stud flush with the edge of the center of the last bush. (In my case, the RH bush center was poking out of the tube about 1/8" so I needed to do a bit of tapping with various drifts to snug all the components together within the Iso tube.)
Once everything is nice and tight, place the end cap over the LH side, then a PTFE washer, and finally the Hemmings adjuster and gaiter. (Again, if you are using shims, this is the time to add them.)
Tap the stud through this whole lot, through the frame spacer and out through the Z-plate.
Torque both nuts down to 25 foot lbs. and set the gap with a feeler gauge (with the bike off the center stand). Voila!…You’re done. Ain't no big thing! (By the way - my old Iso rubbers were almost turning to powder, and were so oblong-shaped it’s a wonder they did any absorption at all!)

A few things to know:

Always lubricate the rubber bits liberally with a silicone-based lube (not petroleum based).
Use anti-seize on the stud and nuts, as well as the inside of all the bushes and buffers.
A small bottle jack can help when placed under a frame tube. This will jack up the frame to match the engine mount/Iso tube and assist on alignment of the stud through the z-plates, etc.
By tugging on the rider's footrests, the frame can be pulled away from the Iso mount by a few crucial thousandths of an inch, which allows easier insertion of gaiters/collars/etc. Again, this is where an assistant is key!"
 
Here's another one I saver from Mike Taglieri.

"From: Michael Taglieri
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 01:30:01
Subject: Easier Way to Rebuild the Rear Isolastic

* See note at end re: alternate method I used on my 74 Roadster.

? The standard workshop manuals for the Commando generally tell you that
the rear Isolastic mount can be rebuilt only by removing the engine, or
even the entire power train. Today, helping Chuck Contrino rebuild the
rear Isolastic on his '72 Interstate. I was finally able to test a
procedure I've been contemplating for a long time that lets you rebuild
the rear Isolastic without significantly dismantling the rest of the
bike. It worked very well, and this is how you do it:

1. Remove the tank.

2. Remove the primary (optional -- see below).

3. Remove the horn (optional -- see below).

4. Remove the air filter(s) and the exhaust pipes.

5. Put the bike on the centerstand and fasten the centerstand with safety
wire, electrical ties, bungee cords, etc., so it cannot possibly
collapse. Do not fasten it to any part of the frame, but only to the
engine plates or some other part of the bike that hangs on the Isolastic
mounts.

6. Slightly loosen the nuts on the large central bolt that runs through
the rear Isolastic, and also loosen the nuts on the headsteady.

7. Put a small hydraulic jack, etc., under the middle of the left frame
tube (with padding to protect the frame) and slowly raise the side of the
frame until the left foot of the centerstand just leaves the floor. At
this point, the weight of the frame does not rest on the central bolt of
the rear Isolastic, and you can remove it easily. Using a suitable drift
(a 1/2" socket extension works well), tap the big bolt loose, catching
the various metal parts of the Isolastic that fall free when it's out.
(By the way, using a hydraulic jack this way is also useful for getting
the bolt back IN when you're done, and you can look through the hole with
a flashlight and move the frame until the parts are exactly aligned).

8. Lower the hydraulic jack. Now the frame is hanging on the powertrain
by the front and top Isolastics, and the top Isolastics show it by
twisting slightly under the weight. Lift the rear wheel (with a 2x4",
brick, etc.) until the top Isolastics are no longer twisted. Now, remove
the side plates of the top Isolastics. (You do not have to remove the
engine steady from the top of the engine).

9. The powertrain is now resting on the floor, held up the centerstand,
but it's attached to the rest of the bike only by the front Isolastic.
Now, put more stuff under the rear wheel to raise the frame until the
centerstand almost comes off the floor.

10. At this point, the frame tubes are out of the way and the rear
Isolastic is completely exposed on both sides for rebuilding.


? THE "OPTIONAL" STEPS: If you didn't remove the primary, the Isolastic is
completely exposed only on the right side (see Alternate Method below: on my bike it was only partially exposed), and you will need some kind of
hook to pull the rubber parts out. If you didn't remove the horn, the
frame tubes will be partly out of the way but not entirely. I recommend
taking off both of these items if you're removing the original Isolastic
rubber parts, because if they're truly stuck in there, it's a %$#@ of a
job to get them out. On the other hand, considering how awful a job it
is to remove the horn, you may want to try this first with the horn in
place and remove it only as a last resort. (By the way, if you pound on
the central rubber with an ordinary drift to get it out, the rubber
absorbs the shock of the hammer blows before they get transmitted to the
edges. The best way is to pound on the edges of the rubber by using a
very large socket on an extension as your drift).

REMOVING THE HORN: As anyone knows who has tried it, this is one of the ultimate bastard jobs on the bike. You can do it with the rear wheel in
place by unbolting just the front part of the rear fender (two bolts near
the top, two nuts on studs near the bottom), and flexing the fender
enough to "pop" it off the studs and move it down. These studs turn out
to be the bolts that hold the horn mount, which you remove (teaching
children in the area several new words in the process). Finally, you can
squeeze the horn out of the space between the frame and the fender --
moving the rear axle as far back as you can will help.

Once you've got the rear Isolastic exposed, the manual explains the way
to rebuild it. Chuck decided to install Mick Hemmings' vernier Isolastic
conversion collars on his bike, and I may wind up doing the same -- it's
astonishing how well-machined these pieces are. I almost wish I could
afford to buy an extra set to frame and hang on my wall.

Alternate method I used on my 74 Roadster
Rather than using the centerstand, I had my bike (a 1974 850) on my lift with the front wheel locked in the wheel vise, centerstand up. (No worry about tipping the bike over when jacking it off the centerstand and it is a one person operation.) No need to raise the rear wheel as described above, but it still requires the preparation described in #1 thru 4 above. Put a hydraulic jack under the engine plates with a piece of 2” X 4” wood on top of the jack to push on the engine plates. Jack it up so that slight pressure is placed against the engine plates. This will hold the engine/gearbox up when you remove the rear Isolastic bolt. Remove the Isolastic bolt. The end caps, PTFE washers, etc. will come out at this point. Remove the head steady side plates. Loosen the front Isolastic bolt, but do not remove. Now the only things holding the engine/gearbox in place is the front Isolastic and the jack.

Slowly lower the jack and the engine/gearbox will pivot off the front Isolastic, drop down, and the rear Isolastic will start to clear the “Z” plate. I left my primary on. The rear Isolastic would not completely clear on the right side as described by Mike Taglieri above on my bike as the primary case rested on the left frame tube preventing it from lowering any further. However it was low enough and exposed enough (about ¾ exposed) that I was able to get all the rubbers and buffers out of the rear Isolastic tube with little effort. In fact the right iso rubber was a very loose fit and almost fell out. The center and left ones were snug and appeared to be in good condition, but I replaced all three since I don’t want to do this job again anytime soon.

Installing the new isolastics was easy. I cleaned out the tube, greased it with silicon grease and greased all the isolastics. I put the left iso in from the left side. Then from the right side I put in the spacer, center isolastic, another spacer, and the right side iso. I had to tap the center iso in using a long ratchet extension as a drift. You do not need the Norton special tool to get the isos in—you just have to work them into the tube with your fingers. The grease makes it pretty easy. Then you have to add the end caps, PTFE washer, collar and boot. Now jack it back up to line up the hole. The hardest part was putting the long stud back through all the various spacers, Z plates, etc.

I use Mick Hemmings vernier adjusters. These can be used on pre 1975 Commandos without any modification. I understand the Mark III style is easier to use though I have never seen them."
 
That is brilliant in concept and extremely well described.
I read the shop manual again. Then I looked at the shop manual for 1975's, which is different from the '71 to '73s. There may be an entirely different setup; for '75s the procedure is to remove the engine and gearbox.
muchas gracias
 
Would cooking oil do the same job :?:

I use extra virgin recycled oil on the rear belt drive on my bike :wink:
it works a treat.
 
"perhaps others taking this job on will simply consider that not only myself on four different Commandos but also others posting here did not find it necessary to do what you went through"

I fully support an easier way and it sounds as if there is so by all means, use whatever is easiest to do the job. I wanted to get the iso tube down where it was completely accessible from both sides so I could clean out/wire brush, and repaint the interior. So I have to admit I never approached it from the aspect of just getting enough clearance to be able to work the rubbers out/new ones back in so I didn't even think about it that way.
 
Don't know how it would work on isolastics specifically, but aerosol silicone spray is very handy for working with rubber and plastic parts without damaging them, lots of auto parts stores carry it...

greasing isolastics
 
I ended up using Sil-glyde and smearing it all over everything very liberally to protect all the innerds from water intrusion and corrosion. The new buffers seemed to absorb quite a bit of it as I went as well, so hopefully they will last the rest of my lifetime.
 
. I wanted to get the iso tube down where it was completely accessible from both sides so I could clean out/wire brush, and repaint the interior.

It never occurred to me to paint the inside of the ISO tubes, guess I did not see the point of it

however, like you, I also wire brushed, cleaned, and fully lubed the rear ISO prior to putting in new rubbers

all of this done without removing anything other than the head steady, side covers, and right side electrical shaver thingy
 
I may start asking questions about the rear isos next winter when I get to them. They will be the last "rubber" parts not yet replaced.
 
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