Gearbox and Primary Oils

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Branch

Branch

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I know this is a bit of a controversial topic as I've been researching it for a few days on and off, I live in Australia (Sydney) and I need to find locally available oils for my '73 850.

So far as I can tell, people who know much more than me are saying it's best to use ATF in the primary and EP90 in the gearbox. I haven't been able to find any EP90, just SAE90, and I can't seem to find any reliable information about whether it's the same and safe to use in the Commando. I've read some horror stories about brass bushings getting wrecked by the wrong oil, so I wanted to check in first.

Would the two oils below be suitable for use?

Gearbox and Primary Oils


Gearbox and Primary Oils
 
Im at the same spot as you it seems, after reading the many (and contradictive) oil threads it seems the gl-5 oil as in your second pic is what can cause problems... that said others say they use it and its fine
 
Adelaide based.
If using ATF, it should be "Type F" (as it is not 'slippery' even if it gets on the clutch plates).
Gear oil in my box is Redline Heavy Shock - I find it excellent for year-round riding in our climate.
Ta.
 
I also live in Sydney, use Valvoline 80W/90 Gear oil with a dollop of Nulon additive (comes in a white tube). Nothing in primary as its belt drive.
 
I would be concerned goling from 90 wt. gear oil to ATF, which is around 10 wt. Also, would 10 wt. ATF be OK in the MK III primary with it's hydraulic tensioner?
 
kerinorton said:
I am using DEX III in my g/box and 20-50 engine oil in my primary.
Dereck
Click to expand...

That gearbox won't last long with ATF!!!!!!!
 
Hi Danno.
I think Branch meant:
1. ...to use ATF in the primary, and
2. EP90 in the gearbox...
Ta.
 
kerinorton said:
I am using DEX III in my g/box and 20-50 engine oil in my primary.
Dereck
Click to expand...

Hi dereck.
What have you used in the engine?
Ta.
 
Danno said:
I would be concerned goling from 90 wt. gear oil to ATF, which is around 10 wt.
Click to expand...

There has been some discussion about using ATF in the gearbox before, also a "90" gear oil is roughly equivalent in viscosity to "50" engine oil.

gearbox-lube-apologize-t8252.html
gear-box-t8810.html

Gearbox and Primary Oils


Danno said:
Also, would 10 wt. ATF be OK in the MK III primary with it's hydraulic tensioner?
Click to expand...

In my opinion, no. I prefer to use 20w/50.
 
When I rebuilt my gearbox a few years back, I intended to use ATF. In fact, I filled it with that. But I chickened out a week later and drained it/refilled it with standard gearbox oil.

I believe that ATF SHOULD be fine, it works properly in automatic transmissions which have gears and many car manual trannies are now specced with ATF as the standard fill. However, given the age of the gearbox design, I decided that I wasn't comfortable with ATF and I long ago learned that most of this stuff is about what you are personally comfortable doing.

I use ATF in the primary, 90Wt gear oil in the gearbox, and 40wt motor oil in the motor.
 
What a bunch of worry warts. Its been decades since additives in gear lubes bothered golden colored metals. ATF is actually better in AMC gearboxes mainly for flowing in/out of sleeve bushes when not in 4th. I can feel the slight response improvement of less viscosity of Dextron in gearbox [and forks] w Ford Type F in primary. To pull off Peel's sportbike spanking I brag to hi heavens about required WOT 6500-7500 in/out 1st & 2nd up to 90 mph in 10-25 mph marked twisties - which turned bushes/shaft metal into abrasive carbon/metal ceramic - which opened mainshaft support clearances which allowed clutch wobble which eventually threw Peel's primary belt into a mess at front of primary around & inside pulley and alternator. After rebuild I asked ancient Norton racers on NOC-UK, Brit Iron list and INOA fourm about ATF to be told that was their standard in AMC boxes. A side note that came out of my inquiries was ancient racers before belt drives having triplex chain seizures if using primary oil above 20 grade 'weight'. After my switch to AMC Dextron and even better exhaust tuning Peel's AMC bushes didn't melt and clutch stayed stable so no more belt throwing.

The Ozarks contests are rather more severe than vintage racing = as chicanes go for dozens of miles a section staying on WOT in lower gears in/out of Commando red zone and would go for 30-45 min/60-90 miles a run with only about 1/4th in opens to use 3rd & 4th to cool down some. If not behaving like a stupid squid - so in 4th a fair amount of time to drip some lube back in bushes > then any ole bulldozer gear lube is good enough.
 
NZ based
Redline Lite Weight Shock proof oil( blue in colour) in my AMC 4 speed for the Roadster and Fuchs Silkolene 70-90 in the TTI g/box for the race bike
Belt drives in both so no primary oils required
Regards Mike
 
Hi Mike.
We call that blue one Smurf blood.
The missing word is 'no'.
 
Hello
Sydney,
Engine: PENRITE HPR30. (20/60). "High Zinc"
Gearbox: PENRITE gear oil 80W-90
Primary: Shell gardinia 40
Runs well oil changed at 3000 miles or earlier depending planned trips.
Peter
 
hobot said:
What a bunch of worry warts. Its been decades since additives in gear lubes bothered golden colored metals. ATF is actually better in AMC gearboxes mainly for flowing in/out of sleeve bushes when not in 4th. I can feel the slight response improvement of less viscosity of Dextron in gearbox [and forks] w Ford Type F in primary. To pull off Peel's sportbike spanking I brag to hi heavens about required WOT 6500-7500 in/out 1st & 2nd up to 90 mph in 10-25 mph marked twisties - which turned bushes/shaft metal into abrasive carbon/metal ceramic - which opened mainshaft support clearances which allowed clutch wobble which eventually threw Peel's primary belt into a mess at front of primary around & inside pulley and alternator. After rebuild I asked ancient Norton racers on NOC-UK, Brit Iron list and INOA fourm about ATF to be told that was their standard in AMC boxes. A side note that came out of my inquiries was ancient racers before belt drives having triplex chain seizures if using primary oil above 20 grade 'weight'. After my switch to AMC Dextron and even better exhaust tuning Peel's AMC bushes didn't melt and clutch stayed stable so no more belt throwing.

The Ozarks contests are rather more severe than vintage racing = as chicanes go for dozens of miles a section staying on WOT in lower gears in/out of Commando red zone and would go for 30-45 min/60-90 miles a run with only about 1/4th in opens to use 3rd & 4th to cool down some. If not behaving like a stupid squid - so in 4th a fair amount of time to drip some lube back in bushes > then any ole bulldozer gear lube is good enough.
Click to expand...

Steve, c'mon.... normally your spelling is always spot on.... there's no "t" in DEXRON, you have to get it right. :P
 
needing said:
kerinorton said:
I am using DEX III in my g/box and 20-50 engine oil in my primary.
Dereck
Click to expand...

Hi dereck.
What have you used in the engine?
Ta.
Click to expand...

I have always used a regular 20-50 in the engine. I used to use 90 in the trans but swapped it out 2000 mils ago. I use hydraulic oil in the forks. Well, when the bike is going that is. Tomorrows the day. see other thread.
 
Chili said:
Hello
Sydney,
Engine: PENRITE HPR30. (20/60). "High Zinc"
Gearbox: PENRITE gear oil 80W-90
Primary: Shell gardinia 40
Runs well oil changed at 3000 miles or earlier depending planned trips.
Peter
Click to expand...

Thanks Chili, just out of curiosity where do you buy your oils?
 
edward said:
I also live in Sydney, use Valvoline 80W/90 Gear oil with a dollop of Nulon additive (comes in a white tube). Nothing in primary as its belt drive.
Click to expand...

Thanks Edward, where do you go to buy oils?
 
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