G15 Questions

I've got a couple of questions about the G15CS I just picked up

#1 - Was the CSR designated as G15CSR on the engine case? There are some pieces on this bike that do not jibe with the CS bikes I've seen, but match some pics I've seen of CSRs, such as the chrome chainguard, chrome fork shrouds instead of gaiters, apehangers as seen on the last batch of CSRs and the large rear fender also found on the G15 MkII and some CSRs I've seen pics of.

#2 - did any G15s come with alloy instrument perches? Here's a pic of what I've got:

This bracket puts the instruments up at a 45 deg angle which is fine, but would block the view of the high-beam indicator and ammeter in the headlight shell.

Hi Bill,
The instrument bracket is the same as Norton Atlas/650SS (similar to the P11 but slightly different hole centres) as they too are Norton Roadholder.
ATB.
Paul.

Ive seen a couple ( ebay pictures ) with the CSR engine No. , G15CSR so presume the stampings the i.d. , on the cases if not the frame .

Matt Spencer said:

Ive seen a couple ( ebay pictures ) with the CSR engine No. , G15CSR so presume the stampings the i.d. , on the cases if not the frame .

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I was just asking because I've never seen a CSR in person, so I don't know if the factory stamped the engine G15CSR/

I do know the serial is stamped on the headstock, left side, and it's only the six digit - no model designation on the hybrid frames.

I think I'm going to do a straight CS restoration and keep the ape hangers, chrome chain guard, big rear fender, alloy binnacle and fork shrouds in the attic. It'll be cheaper to replace that stuff than to re-chrome it anyway.

Paul Webb said:

Hi Bill,
The instrument bracket is the same as Norton Atlas/650SS (similar to the P11 but slightly different hole centres) as they too are Norton Roadholder.
ATB.
Paul.

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Dommi Roadholders fork yolks had 7 inch centres, Atlas/Commando 7 3/8 inch.
Don’t assume that the bike will follow the sales literature as it does not always follow the style that left the factory.

Absolutely loads of images on internet;
http://classic-motorbikes.net/gallery~Matchless-G15
http://classic-motorbikes.net/images/gallery/13030.jpg
http://classic-motorbikes.net/images/gallery/9586.jpg
http://classic-motorbikes.net/images/gallery/10292.jpg
http://classic-motorbikes.net/images/gallery/10286.jpg
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=mat ... ORM=HDRSC2

I've seen those pics, Bernhard. Nothing I've seen so far matches what I've got.

The bike has the 2.4 gallon tank with the pins on the back for elastic mounting.
The bars are about a 12" rise and look like the ape hangers I've seen pics of for the last batch of CSRs.
The chain guard is chrome
The rear fender looks like a MkII rear fender, but slightly bobbed at the back like the Ranger rear fender. There's a reinforced hole with a bolt through it that attaches to the tab on the back of the seat. The fender is made up of perhaps 8 separate pieces of steel - the main part is two pieces, lapped under the edge of the seat and spot welded. There are small brackets on each side with a bolt and acorn nut, and seem meant to mount lifting handles and tie the fender to the top of the frame near the shock mount. There's a channel spot-welded to the underside to route the tail light wires. There are a pair of small tabs on the top of the fender, under the seat, also apparently to hold wiring in place. There are a pair of tabs near the front of the fender, broken off, which seem to be meant to attach small brackets to mount the front of the fender to the frame. There's a bracket on the top of the fender near the front, similar to the rear bracket on a Commando fender, which fits over a cross tube on the frame and is held in place with two nuts, bolts and washers. The entire assembly was chromed, and the overall shape is pretty complex: beaded edge - except for the bobbed back - shaped to fit around the chain guard and the shocks, reinforcing plates at the main mounting points.

Bill,,,,,,,,,,,,If you want contact me directly at ,,,,,,, nort75mk3@aol.com

I have a 1964 G15CS. And I know the hybrid guru guy in the UK who can answer your questions. I have a 1964 CW Mag article about my bike.


Tim_S

I've decided to use the regular G15CS rear fender for the restoration. The fender I have will go in the attic. I think what may have happened was the original alloy fender cracked around the mounts, and the dealer installed a CSR chrome fender to placate the original owner. As far as I know, this fender never came on a CS.

On to another item. Finished taking the chassis apart, and started on the engine yesterday. Cleaned off the head and cylinder, ready to go to the machine shop for dipping and re-bore. Valves and guides look pretty good. If they clean up well, I'll just lap them in. Otherwise, I guess new valves and guides.

When I got to the primary, it was a different story. After soaking the screws overnight, they still wouldn't budge. Decided to drill of the cheeseheads rather than risk breaking the inner or outer primary. After drilling out all 14 screws and an hour of careful prising, this is what I found:


I've got the clutch spring nuts soaking overnight, along with the adjusting screw. Also got the rotor off. It should clean up OK. Could be worse :roll:

YEEF!!!

that's got to be the worst I've ever seen.

Yep I gotta chime in on this too----Double YEEF--- that's pretty bad in there, but as you say it could be worse. at least you had success getting it apart without damaging the primary ...well done. The primary on the MKIII that I got last year was pretty bad, as it had been sitting outside up in Maine for years, but I must admit it wasn't as far gone as that one you've got there. Still I see a "glass half full" kinda view of it. :wink: Cj

That is amazing. What got in it that so corroded all the guts? I have never seen anything look like that. I am glad you were at least able to salvage it. I am afraid my lack of patience would not have served me well had it been me. There are times when one should just "walk away" for a bit.

I can't wait to see the "before & after" comparison photos on this one. "Dramatic" is the word that springs to mind.

Update on the G15...

Primary is cleaned up and at the welders, getting 5 screw holes filled, due to the excessive corrosion

Cylinder, Crank, rods, rings and pistons are at the machine shop. Cylinders will be bored and the rotating mass balanced to 84%

I've bead blasted all the aluminum, and I'm starting to polish those pieces that get polished.

I've wire wheeled all the fasteners and brackets, and have a bucket ready to take down to Airco for a clear cad coating on Monday

Tach and Speedo are back from Joel.

Still need to have a long conversation with Mike at Walridge, and order the missing stuff

Another week or two, and I'll start putting things together 8)

Been working steadily on the G15 over the past several months. Trying feverishly to finish the bike and bring it to Barber in less than 3 weeks.

Found out a lot about the bike since first getting it. It's a late 1967, dispatched in July, and is titled as a 1968, which is pretty common (my Ranger is also titled as a '68). I am apparently the third owner, and when I start it up, it will be the first time in 40 years.

I've got a bunch of pics, but to make a long story short, here's what it looks like as of this afternoon.



And what it looked like 5 weeks ago...


The only real obstacle to starting is the lack of a wiring harness. I had gotten one back in June, but didn't open it until Labor Day weekend (31 August-2 September for those outside the US). The harness was for a magneto bike, not a distributor bike. As it was a holiday weekend, it was nearly a week before I got it resolved with the vendor. Simple swap of harnesses, except the one I need is still en route from the UK. I'm supposed to get it about 26 Sept.

Short list of things yet to do:
Install harness
Wire up ignition
Re-do instrument light wires
Fit headlight to bucket
Mount horn/dip switch
Mount stator to cover and join primary
Lubricate cables
Fill fluids
Register the bike and get the tag (number plate)

If I get the harness by Thursday, I will start it on Saturday. If I don't get the harness by Thursday, I'll just wire the ignition to the battery and start it up anyway

Bernhard said:

Paul Webb said:

Hi Bill, The instrument bracket is the same as Norton Atlas/650SS (similar to the P11 but slightly different hole centres) as they too are Norton Roadholder.
ATB. Paul.

Click to expand...

Dommi Roadholders fork yolks had 7 inch centres, Atlas/Commando 7 3/8 inch.
Don’t assume that the bike will follow the sales literature as it does not always follow the style that left the factory.

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We have the usual supermarket of misinformation here. First of all the speedo tach bracket in the photo is one that was never, ever put on an Atlas or 650ss featherbed bike for sure. Also, the change in fork centers from 7" to 7 3/8" has absolutely nothing to do with the model of the bike, it was an across the board change for all Norton heavy twins after a certain serial number at the end of 1963 or the beginning of 1964. Atlas bikes first appeared in 1962 and they had the same 7" center forks as all other heavy Nortons!

We have the usual supermarket of misinformation here. First of all the speedo tach bracket in the photo is one that was never, ever put on an Atlas or 650ss featherbed bike for sure. Also, the change in fork centers from 7" to 7 3/8" has absolutely nothing to do with the model of the bike, it was an across the board change for all Norton heavy twins after a certain serial number at the end of 1963 or the beginning of 1964. Atlas bikes first appeared in 1962 and they had the same 7" center forks as all other heavy Nortons![/quote]




Re; “Atlas bikes first appeared in 1962 and they had the same 7" center forks as all other heavy Nortons!”


Do you have proof of this information then- it is well know that the Atlas always had 7 3/8inch fork centres.

I haven't followed this thread much recently.

But what does the parts books say about fork parts for various models.
It was certainly my understanding they all changed to the 7 & 3/8 centres together.

So it was a simple matter of before and after the change.
And trying to mix parts is trouble....

The instrument bracket in question is likely an aftermarket part. It is for a 7-3/8" top yoke, which is standard Norton from '63-on. I don't know if the '62 Atlas had 7-3/8" yokes, as I'm not too familiar with them.
I do know that AMC kept the 7" yokes on the bikes they sold with Teledraulic forks, which is what Paul Webb was referring to back when he offered advice on the bracket pictured.
The front hub on the P11 is called the interim hub, which uses a different bearing set-up than earlier hubs. It was introduced in the 1963 AMC model range, except for CSR models - those got the new hubs in '64. Perhaps - and this is just supposition - Norton did the same with their Roadholders? Could they have introduced the wider yokes on the Atlas, then made them standard the following year?

This G15 had been dressed up a bit by the original owner, according to the second owner. The fender that came with the bike is a late G15mkII piece, as was the chain guard. The front forks had the long chrome covers, replacing the headlight ears and gaitors, headlight was a 6" Bates item bolted to the lower yoke on a chrome U-bracket, bars were about a 12" rise, the instrument perch was the piece I posted back in April, and the dampers and instruments had that peel-and-stick chrome-look tape. Oh, and the tanks were painted a sort of latte brown.

Lucky for me, I got a box with the bike that contained some of the parts that had been taken off all those years ago, and the only piece I really had to hunt was the toolbox.

Bernhard said:

Do you have proof of this information then- it is well know that the Atlas always had 7 3/8inch fork centres.

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Well stating "it is well known" sure doesn't count for Jack-Shit. NOR does it count for much that I have inspected a half-dozen 1962 Atlas bikes first-hand. But if you put first-hand inspection of actual bikes together with first-hand inspection of factory literature then you might have something.

In April 1962 Norton put out a four page supplement for the new Atlas laying out it's specification etc.. It specifically states:

" As far as the cycle parts of the machine are concerned - frame - fork - gearbox - etc., these are identical with the other 'featherbed' frame machines and therefore all instructions relating to these parts published in instruction manual P.106 apply equally to it"

The internet is the #1 worst place to get information on Norton motorcycles, this includes the NOC website and forum out of the U.K., as it is no better than those who put up information there, piss-poor.

No one that has any personal first-hand experience or information on early Norton Atlas motorcycles would ever think they had forks any different than any other 1962-63' Dominator.

I will dig around for my copy of the factory bulletin that states at which serial number wide forks were added to the range, meanwhile I have scans of my 1962 Atlas supplement here along with other good information to combat internet idiocy:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 123&type=3

BillT said:

I've seen those pics, Bernhard. Nothing I've seen so far matches what I've got.

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Your original query was “did any G15s come with alloy instrument perches? Here's a pic of what I've got” and “I do know that AMC kept the 7" yokes on the bikes they sold with Teledraulic forks, which is what Paul Webb was referring to back when he offered advice on the bracket pictured.”
The Atlas 750 engine was first produced in the featherbed framed Atlas form in 1962.When Norton moved to Plumstead under the AMC banner the engine was later used in their Matchless and AJS variations.
AMC was renowned for its “badge engineering” motorcycles of all engine sizes. This mix and match approach came in various guises, depending on what was in stock in the parts bin and who they were trying to impress and sell bikes to in that particular year.
The only way that you can determine your particular model is to compare it with that year’s sales pictures from the original sales leaflets, or the pictures from the weekly 1960s Motor Cycle. The Earls Court show and editions containing the AMC spring announcements would be your best bet.
As they also used the AMC Teledraulic forks these came with 7 inch fork yolk centres.
The early Featherbed Atlas with Roadholder forks came with the speedo mounted in the headlamp and the rev counter was an optional extra and was mounted on a single instrument bracket. The twin instrument bracket was first produced by the aftermarket “café racer” suppliers. Norton f/bed ones were always painted black.
To beng, we might have crossed wires here, the "Atlas" model was 100% a Norton in slimeline frame, the fact that the same powerplant was used in at least 3 other differant models may lead to confusion; however, you may be right, if we are talking about the first year of the Norton Atlas, as none of these was sold in the UK in 1962/3 season, as these were for export only, as was the first 650ss, 88ss models. These models are rather thin on the ground in this country, unless one has been reimported and reregistered. My 1965 Atlas did come with 7 3/8 centres and the front wheel was not interchangeable with any other Norton with 7 inch centre yokes on any other featherbed model.
These wider roadholder fork yokes and Atlas engines were also used in the first drum braked Commandos.
Just to add even more confusion a few private owners have fitted a 750cc Atlas/ Commando to the wideline featherbed frames which Norton never produced :!: