Front wheel hub (2010)

AndreasW · Feb 6, 2010

I am a machine manufacturer and Norton owner since 35 years, a good combination.
To celebrate the 35 years I dust off my Norton bringing it back to shape.
Most things I buy but some things I make myself.
A good thing would be to sketch all parts we make for our bikes. making it easier
for our fellows to follow.

Since I have lost the entire front end I have to make trees and the front hub.
If anyone interested I have a DXF file for the tree. But I need the vital dimensions
for the hub. DIameter of hole circles, width at holes, distance between flanges.
I think I can figure the rest.

Andreas Wahlberg
UPPSALA SWEWDEN

L.A.B. · Feb 6, 2010

Welcome to the forum Andreas.

I presume by your reference to "35 years" that it's information on the front disc brake hub and not a front drum hub that you require but knowing which year model could be helpful?

Also, there were two versions of front disc brake hub, the early 062867 type with the threaded bearing retainer fitted from 1972-'74, which was originally intended to be used with the right hand side disc brake, and the later 'MkIII' 066024 hub with a circlip in place of the threaded ring, as the MkIII models (which yours could be?) had their front disc brake moved over to the left hand side.
A MkIII hub can be safely fitted either way around, because there's a chance the threaded retainer in the early hubs can loosen if the hub is turned around to be used with a left hand side disc brake.

AndreasW · Feb 7, 2010

Thanks for the welcome. I will make disk myself and get some caliper and main cylinder from scrap.
I managed in the young days to get several speed records in town with my front drum brake.
In these days with a lot more sense, I hope, single disc will probably be more than enough
for my more of a granddad driving style. No more wheelies, burnouts etc. Ah well.............

I ordered spokes for a 1972, so those dimensions are the needed ones.
I have lathes, a CNC mills, welders and a good pile of stainless and assorted materials.
So fitting of found stuff will be easy.

Andreas Wahlberg
UPPSALA

ludwig · Feb 7, 2010

Andreas ,
If you have the capacity to make a front hub , don't make the mistake copying the original !
It's not so hard to make a much better and lighter hub , with wider spaced flanges .
Do away with that ridiculous offset , the 4 different spokes etc ..
You could take the opportunity to go to 36 or even 32 spokes .
With a little calculation , you can use the spokes you already have .

Jeandr · Feb 7, 2010

ludwig said:
Andreas ,
If you have the capacity to make a front hub , don't make the mistake copying the original !
It's not so hard to make a much better and lighter hub , with wider spaced flanges .
Do away with that ridiculous offset , the 4 different spokes etc ..
You could take the opportunity to go to 36 or even 32 spokes .
With a little calculation , you can use the spokes you already have .

Ludwig, what is the weight of your bike :?:

BTW, I agree with everything you wrote

Jean

ludwig · Feb 7, 2010

Jeandr said:
Ludwig, what is the weight of your bike :?:

Ready to go (with oil , battery ..) but no fuel : 131kg or 290 lbs .

daveparry · Feb 7, 2010

because there's a chance the threaded retainer in the early hubs can loosen if the hub is turned around to be used with a left hand side disc brake
------------------------------------
I know that's always been a possibility but I turned my wheel & caliper around about 20 years ago and have never had a problem. I've always said I will locktite it one day but never got around to it! I have some new tyres to fit soon so i'll do it then,
Dave.

Jeandr · Feb 7, 2010

ludwig said:
Ready to go (with oil , battery ..) but no fuel : 131kg or 290 lbs .

Well in the spirit of Colin Chapman "make it light, then make it go fast" Taking the pounds off is better than trying to flog that old horse :mrgreen:

You should start a "weight watcher" program for Commandos :wink:

Jean

ludwig · Feb 7, 2010

daveparry said:
because there's a chance the threaded retainer in the early hubs can loosen ..

Can somebody explain me what would happen if that retainer came loose ?
Not that I am really worried , because I don't have one ..

debby · Feb 7, 2010

ludwig said:
daveparry said:

because there's a chance the threaded retainer in the early hubs can loosen ..

Click to expand...

Can somebody explain me what would happen if that retainer came loose ?
Not that I am really worried , because I don't have one ..

In theory at least, I suppose it's possible that the bearing could come out. That's what "they" say anyway. I've heard of that actually happening with the bearing in the rear brake drum if the circlip is omitted.

What are you running for a front hub, ludwig? I'm guessing it's not exactly stock!

Debby

swooshdave · Feb 7, 2010

ludwig said:
daveparry said:

because there's a chance the threaded retainer in the early hubs can loosen ..

Click to expand...

Can somebody explain me what would happen if that retainer came loose ?
Not that I am really worried , because I don't have one ..

Ok, without looking at it too carefully, the bearing retainer could come loose and flop around the axle, contained by the fork leg. Then the bearing could move and hilarity would ensue... for the paramedics.

splatt · Feb 7, 2010

swooshdave said:
without looking at it too carefully

point noticed

swooshdave said:
Then the bearing could move and hilarity would ensue

NO the hub would only move by the amount of difference between the middle spacer and the clearance on the bottom of the bearing tunnels, very little, theoreticly it should be none, but in the real world.....

Ludwig, does wider flanges make for a more ridgid wheel assembly :?: , caliper clearance to spokes is always going to be one issue, unless you use a huge disc

kommando · Feb 8, 2010

In theory at least, I suppose it's possible that the bearing could come out. That's what "they" say anyway. I've heard of that actually happening with the bearing in the rear brake drum if the circlip is omitted.

Have had the circlip fracture on the back wheel and the bearing moved out out the drum but not totally, the drum gained a lot of extra freeplay and there were noises at low speeds but handling stayed fine. The hub and its two bearings were unaffected and the spindle stayed tight and the brake braked as normal (which is not a lot :lol: ).

ludwig · Feb 8, 2010

The bearings can go nowhere .
The are held in place by the wheelspindle and inner and outer spacer .
Theoretically , the hub could shift a little :
IF there is a difference between the length of the inner spacer and the bearing supports in the hub ( is there ? )
and IF the hub can overcome the friction of these bearings , which are usually pretty tight .
With the std hub , it is physically IMPOSSIBLE to have equal tension on the lh and rh spokes .
Look at the clearance between std caliper and spokes : way too much .
Wider spaced flanges and equal tension on the spokes will make a much stronger wheel .

L.A.B. · Feb 8, 2010

ludwig said:
The bearings can go nowhere .
The are held in place by the wheelspindle and inner and outer spacer .
Theoretically , the hub could shift a little :

OK, so theoretically, if we can accept there is a slim chance of the hub moving, then I think we also have to accept that the disc will move with it, the result being that the disc could slowly push the brake pad and caliper piston back into the caliper on one side, thus leaving a gap between the disc and the opposite pad? And if this were to happen when riding on a motorway/freeway where brakes may not be applied for reasonably long periods of time, and suddenly the brakes needed to be used, then the front brake lever would probably have to be pumped several times before the brake would start to work again, by which time the bike and rider will have travelled several extra yards/metres, and it could make all the difference between having collision or avoiding one?

ludwig · Feb 8, 2010

L.A.B. said:
..so theoretically, if we can accept there is a slim chance of the hub moving...

One of the conditions is that there should be room for the hub to move , and there is none , or not more than a fraction of a mm .
I just looked at a std hub and both bearings appear to be fully seated .
( couldn't find an original spacer to mesure exactly )
And even IF the hub should move 0.2 mm and IF the LH brake pad was pushed in 0.2 mm , the displacement of the brake fluid would push the RH pad out by 0.2 mm .. you would'nt even notice .
If , If ,If ...
the risk of blowing a front tire must be a 1000 times higher .

swooshdave · Feb 8, 2010

ludwig said:
L.A.B. said:

..so theoretically, if we can accept there is a slim chance of the hub moving...

Click to expand...

One of the conditions is that there should be room for the hub to move , and there is none , or not more than a fraction of a mm .
I just looked at a std hub and both bearings appear to be fully seated .
( couldn't find an original spacer to mesure exactly )
And even IF the hub should move 0.2 mm and IF the LH brake pad was pushed in 0.2 mm , the displacement of the brake fluid would push the RH pad out by 0.2 mm .. you would'nt even notice .
If , If ,If ...
the risk of blowing a front tire must be a 1000 times higher .

So... you're going with "mythbusted"?

debby · Feb 8, 2010

So it sounds like the only purpose the lockring serves is to retain the felt seal (as used with the original unsealed bearings - remember those?)

Debby

Jdub · Mar 1, 2019

A question on the difference between the earlier and later front disk brake hubs (Mk2 and Mk3 if I understand).

Does the Mk3 front disk hub also feature a machined groove on the face of the hub? Was this intended as a visual clue or is there some other reason for this being machined into the hub face?

L.A.B. · Mar 1, 2019

Jdub said:
Does the Mk3 front disk hub also feature a machined groove on the face of the hub?

Yes.

Jdub said:
Was this intended as a visual clue or is there some other reason for this being machined into the hub face?

Probably visual as there seems no other reason for it to be there.

Front wheel hub (2010)

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