French Riders

Yorkie · Dec 31, 2021

This is one for our French members - I will be emigrating from California to the south of France in 2023 and want to bring my Nortons with me. Do any of you have any experience importing motorcycles from the US? I have looking into bringing over my old Land Rover but as it’s modified it’s seems like it will be a problem. My Nortons are stock but I am struggling to find much information on motorcycle importation. Any help is appreciate. Thanks.

marinatlas · Dec 31, 2021

Hi, I think it should be quite doable , as I am not a specialist into import, but as long as you have all the title , you will have to register them under the french system , but I don't know if you have to pay any import tax (our TVA , equivalent to UK VAT) as it will not be a sale , by PM I will give you the contact of a seller in France who is used to import bristish bike from USA (he is dealing only with Baxter Cycles IOWA), then the French Norton owners club is very good in supply any datation certificate , more will come later , for the moment , I have to deal with the dinner , pierre

RoadScholar · Dec 31, 2021

There is quite a bit written about this process, mostly from the US to England, however., the basics are probably the same: proper crating, bonding, insurance and shipping. The shipping won't be inexpensive with your choices being container/boat or air freight. Something I found:

Shipping Motorcycle USA to France | Schumacher Cargo

Shipping a motorcycle to France from the USA takes some preparation. Let the professionals at Schumacher help. Get your bike shipping rate today!

www.schumachercargo.com

Best.

Craig · Dec 31, 2021

Just another reason why I’m a lifer on this Forum , great way to step up gentleman !

peter12 · Dec 31, 2021

I live in France and am no way an expert, but you may be able to avoid any taxes and duty if you bring them over correctly listed as personal belongings.
I am not at all sure but with researching along those lines.

There’s a guy called Mark Rimmer who’s an expert on these matters. He’s on some of the French expat forums re registering vehicles in France.
If you message me I’ll find some l8nks for you if your interested.

elefantrider · Dec 31, 2021

It has been a while but I've done the move in both directions with a '71 Roadster and maybe can help. California to France and back.

dero · Dec 31, 2021

It has been a long time , but for what it is worth , I would recommend contacting customs in France first , They are the ones making the rules .
There can be a lot of unexpected charges , bio-security is just one that caught me out , make sure you get the full story from customs & the shipper .

kommando · Jan 1, 2022

dero said:
I would recommend contacting customs in France first

In all my years of experience of dealing with bureaucrats the last thing you do is contact them first. They will take advantage of your lack of knowledge and use it to extract maximum pain. Do your own research first by reaching out to other people who have already been through the wringer such as the suggested Mark Rimmer.

jan nelder · Jan 1, 2022

kommando said:
In all my years of experience of dealing with bureaucrats the last thing you do is contact them first. They will take advantage of your lack of knowledge and use it to extract maximum pain. Do your own research first by reaching out to other people who have already been through the wringer such as the suggested Mark Rimmer.

that’s not true with the UK Probate tax department. I know that one is not related directly, but one can enquire as to the rules without discussing your own case. Hopefully the rules are available online in multi language form!

kommando · Jan 1, 2022

jan nelder said:
that’s not true with the UK Probate tax department.

Ring the DVLA to enquire about a medical condition and they take all your details before they will answer any questions, if you ask about a notifiable condition they revoke your Licence immediately, stopping you from surrendering your licence voluntarily and being able to use Section 88 to drive while they are processing your licence renewal.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/695575/inf188x6-can-i-drive-while-my-application-is-with-dvla.pdf

Yorkie · Jan 1, 2022

Craig said:
Just another reason why I’m a lifer on this Forum , great way to step up gentleman !

Ain’t that the truth!

laurentdom · Jan 1, 2022

Once your vehicles are in France, you may have to consider which type of registration is the best from your prespective, i.e. a "plain" registration as if they were new, or "collector" registration if they are 30 years old or more (maybe the limit has been lowered to 20; to be verified).

I bought my bike in England, got it with all its DVLA etc. documents and had no problem getting a collector registration which allows you to keep it as it was when new, to get a low-cost insurance (up to you to balance the pros and cons) and avoid some anti-pollution limitations (at least up to now).

Fédération Française des Véhicules Anciens (FFVA) is quite helpful on that matter.

Welcome in France!

baz · Jan 1, 2022

laurentdom said:
Once your vehicles are in France, you may have to consider which type of registration is the best from your prespective, i.e. a "plain" registration as if they were new, or "collector" registration if they are 30 years old or more (maybe the limit has been lowered to 20; to be verified).

I bought my bike in England, got it with all its DVLA etc. documents and had no problem getting a collector registration which allows you to keep it as it was when new, to get a low-cost insurance (up to you to balance the pros and cons) and avoid some anti-pollution limitations (at least up to now).

Fédération Française des Véhicules Anciens (FFVA) is quite helpful on that matter.

Welcome in France!

Does registering as a collector vehicle allow you to commute to work?

marinatlas · Jan 1, 2022

baz said:
Does registering as a collector vehicle allow you to commute to work?

yes on some extent (but which I cannot tell you , cause all my Norton are on std register and I am against the collector reg, but to which extent (again!!) , as the benefit of the collector reg is that in case of a total crap of your bike the insurance cannot take your bike out of the system which could (or is) the case with the normal/ std reg !!)) , but you cannot "doe a work" with a collector reg vehicle , for eg a friend of mine and I went to UK ( near the Scottish border ) to buy an old double decker bus , in order to make a mobile food truck , we nearly buy it when I discover my friend cannot use it as a job because of that ........... (I had to make the story short ).

baz · Jan 1, 2022

marinatlas said:
yes on some extent (but which I cannot tell you , cause all my Norton are on std register and I am against the collector reg, but to which extent (again!!) , as the benefit of the collector reg is that in case of a total crap of your bike the insurance cannot take your bike out of the system which could (or is) the case with the normal/ std reg !!)) , but you cannot "doe a work" with a collector reg vehicle , for eg a friend of mine and I went to UK ( near the Scottish border ) to buy an old double decker bus , in order to make a mobile food truck , we nearly buy it when I discover my friend cannot use it as a job because of that ........... (I had to make the story short ).

A mate of mine moved to France some years ago
He took some vehicles with him he got his Norton registered but a Toyota land cruiser that was imported to the UK before he took it to France could not be
He also could not register his triumph chopper
And he had a Toyota hiace van that he had from brand new that he had to produce the bill of sale for
I know he regretted registering his Norton as a "collector" bike because he can't commute on it
And he can't change it back to normal registration
He also had an issue with his sr400 Yamaha because it didn't have original mirrors for its inspection
But I can't remember full details of all of above so don't take this as gospel

SteveA · Jan 1, 2022

You Have PM

Regarding Baz's/Laurent/marinaltlas' comments you will have to go with a historic registration, because you can't have a Certificate of Conformity (COC) for it.

Simply, they don't conform to modern standards, so with no CoC there is now no choice of a 'normal registration' for vehicles over 30 years old. I don't know when Baz's mate or Laurent may have done the importation, but today, now that you have to use the centralised ANTS system, ANTS require a CoC issued by the manufacturer. None of your vehicles do and the manufacturers of those marques would not provide you with any documentation.

I will have to chat with marinatlas when I see him next, because I don't understand fully his comment, but I think perhaps he has bikes that were already registered in France when he purchased them or the major parts of them, or registered at a Prefecture before November 2017 when the ANTS system started. Different rules apply to already registered vehicles compared to imports, so I believe he has not applied to move them to vehicule de collection, which in his position I would not either!

Once a vehicule has the document, the 'Carte Grise' as it is still called by most, you are transferring a registration (immatriculation), this is now also done online, the vehicle being transferred should have a 'Controle Technique' (CT) with more than 6 months to run (if applicable) and the seller will need to log onto the system to complete the 'cession' document, which he needs to do to legally stop paying insurance on the vehicle, and you need him to do to register it. But these process don't apply to imports, or you.

Getting a Carte Grise issued for an import is a different process needing different documentation including the CoC, and with a vehicle like your Land Rover an inspection by your local CT, and in case of modified or non-conforming vehicles, also by DREAL! In truth, if you can live without your Land Rover, store it is the US, or sell it. Motorcycles are not yet subject to CT because the law due to come in today has been frozen!

You can of course ride/drive your vehiclule de collection on organised 'Balades', which is why many clubs organise them, but you can also test your bikes!

And it is amazing how much testing you need to do, and the places you need to go to, to properly test your bike!

I live in the wilds of Normandy, seriously, who is watching?

SteveA · Jan 1, 2022

dero said:
It has been a long time , but for what it is worth , I would recommend contacting customs in France first , They are the ones making the rules .
There can be a lot of unexpected charges , bio-security is just one that caught me out , make sure you get the full story from customs & the shipper .

Customs is only part of the story, in France or the UK. Customs deal with importation, they care about ownership and tax collection, not vehicle registration.

baz · Jan 1, 2022

SteveA said:
You Have PM

Regarding Baz's/Laurent/marinaltlas' comments you will have to go with a historic registration, because you can't have a Certificate of Conformity (COC) for it.

Simply, they don't conform to modern standards, so with no CoC there is now no choice of a 'normal registration' for vehicles over 30 years old. I don't know when Baz's mate or Laurent may have done the importation, but today, now that you have to use the centralised ANTS system, ANTS require a CoC issued by the manufacturer. None of your vehicles do and the manufacturers of those marques would not provide you with any documentation.

I will have to chat with marinatlas when I see him next, because I don't understand fully his comment, but I think perhaps he has bikes that were already registered in France when he purchased them or the major parts of them, or registered at a Prefecture before November 2017 when the ANTS system started. Different rules apply to already registered vehicles compared to imports, so I believe he has not applied to move them to vehicule de collection, which in his position I would not either!

Once a vehicule has the document, the 'Carte Grise' as it is still called by most, you are transferring a registration (immatriculation), this is now also done online, the vehicle being transferred should have a 'Controle Technique' (CT) with more than 6 months to run (if applicable) and the seller will need to log onto the system to complete the 'cession' document, which he needs to do to stop legally stop paying insurance on the vehicle, and you need him to do to register it. But these process don't apply to imports, or you.

Getting a Carte Grise issued for an import is a different process needing different documentation including the CoC, and with a vehicle like your Land Rover an inspection by your local CT, and in case of modified or non-conforming vehicles, also by DREAL! In truth, if you can live without your Land Rover, store it is the US, or sell it. Motorcycles are not yet subject to CT because the law due to come in today has been frozen!

You can of course ride/drive your vehiclule de collection on organised 'Balades', which is why many clubs organise them, but you can also test your bikes!

And it is amazing how much testing you need to do, and the places you need to go to, to properly test your bike!

I live in the wilds of Normandy, seriously, who is watching?

He moved out there in 2003 as I say I can't remember all the details because it's only when he comes over and we go to the pub with a gathering of old mates
Beer and putting the world to rights is usually the outcome of such nights out, hence my vageness

SteveA · Jan 1, 2022

RoadScholar said:
There is quite a bit written about this process, mostly from the US to England, however., the basics are probably the same: proper crating, bonding, insurance and shipping. The shipping won't be inexpensive with your choices being container/boat or air freight. Something I found:

Shipping Motorcycle USA to France | Schumacher Cargo

Shipping a motorcycle to France from the USA takes some preparation. Let the professionals at Schumacher help. Get your bike shipping rate today!

www.schumachercargo.com

Best.

The processes differ....conceptually they may be the same, but France and the UK are very different places, with very different implementation of rules....even when the UK was in the EU....and if we were talking Germany, Italy, Spain etc....very different again....

SteveA · Jan 1, 2022

baz said:
He moved out there in 2003 as I say I can't remember all the details because it's only when he comes over and we go to the pub with a gathering of old mates
Beer and putting the world to rights is usually the outcome of such nights out, hence my vageness

The world of vehicle registration of imports has changed, first in 2017 with ANTS (a centralised system similar to DVLA), and again for UK to France imports only customs and taxation, thanks to Brexit in 2021! You used to go to your local tax office and declare the import, now you need a document from customs, because importing from the UK to France is now no different to importing from the US to France, except, you are far less likely to get a CoC on a vehicle that was built to US standards unless that specific model and variant was imported to the EU and therefore already complies with EU standards, but the manufacturer, which is rare. For example, they are unlikely to show kilometers on the speedo or have the same fog lamps!

French Riders

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