Frame Numbers

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Lorenzo

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Mar 27, 2011
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Dear All,
I would kindly ask if anyone may show pictures of the frame numbers stamped on the steering of the Commandos from 1973 on
Thanks for helping!
 
Lorenzo said:
Dear All,
I would kindly ask if anyone may show pictures of the frame numbers stamped on the steering of the Commandos from 1973 on
Thanks for helping!
Click to expand...

The frame is not stamped. The number is stamped onto a thin Vehicle Identication Number (VIN) alloy plate, along with the date it was stamped, which is then secured to the steering head, with small 'knock in' rivets into four holes drilled into the steering head.

If this VIN plate has been removed and lost, the frame has no identity.
 
The frames produced in Italy did get stamped directly on the frame as some way of controlling the WIP maybe or matching to invoices possibly, the number prior to the 850 MK3 bears no relation to the number stamped on the Red Plate, but sometimes it was taken as the frame number by the authorities as it was on my MK2A. According to the NOC expert the Red plate was supposed to cover the directly stamped number to stop confusion, but in some cases it was not covered as is the case with mine. Having the directly stamped number does not help as it was not recorded on the factory register until the MK3.

PM me and I will send a pic, as its on my UK registration V5 doc I do not want to post it on photobucket.
 
kommando said:
The frames produced in Italy did get stamped directly on the frame as some way of controlling the WIP maybe or matching to invoices possibly, the number prior to the 850 MK3 bears no relation to the number stamped on the Red Plate, but sometimes it was taken as the frame number by the authorities as it was on my MK2A. According to the NOC expert the Red plate was supposed to cover the directly stamped number to stop confusion, but in some cases it was not covered as is the case with mine. Having the directly stamped number does not help as it was not recorded on the factory register until the MK3.

PM me and I will send a pic, as its on my UK registration V5 doc I do not want to post it on photobucket.
Click to expand...

I didn't know that. At least I know my frame was made in England then!

Is that good or bad??
 
Well mine does not drift to one side hands off like most pre Mk3 disc braked bikes do according to the NOC Commando Notes, so I am happy with my Italian frame. The Combat UK is a different story but that's due to a front end accident ;) .
 
Fast Eddie said:
The frame is not stamped. The number is stamped onto a thin Vehicle Identication Number (VIN) alloy plate, along with the date it was stamped, which is then secured to the steering head, with small 'knock in' rivets into four holes drilled into the steering head.

If this VIN plate has been removed and lost, the frame has no identity.
Click to expand...

850 models from mid-73 usually have a frame number stamped alongside the safety certification plate. This additional non-matching frame number (usually with an 'F' prefix) is stamped in the form of: *850*F1xxxxx* (with * denoting the limit marks = three lines within a circle) until around mid-1975 (850 Mk3) when the frame stamp often matches the plate number, thus for example: *850*325xxx*. Some 'matching number' Mk3 frames have the 'F' prefix but it would appear that most do not.

Fast Eddie said:
I didn't know that. At least I know my frame was made in England then!
Click to expand...

IF it's an 850, then all frames from mid-'73 usually had the frame stamp, so the theory that Italian frames have it and British frames do not does not seem to bear out, unless no British (Reynolds) frames at all were used from mid-73 which I'm fairly sure was not the case.

http://atlanticgreen.com/commandoframes.htm

As far as I'm aware the 750 frames did not have any additional frame stamp (as early 750 models had no plate), even those produced during '73, unless anyone has evidence to the contrary?
 
L.A.B. said:
Fast Eddie said:
The frame is not stamped. The number is stamped onto a thin Vehicle Identication Number (VIN) alloy plate, along with the date it was stamped, which is then secured to the steering head, with small 'knock in' rivets into four holes drilled into the steering head.

If this VIN plate has been removed and lost, the frame has no identity.
Click to expand...

850 models from mid-73 usually have a frame number stamped alongside the safety certification plate. This additional non-matching frame number (usually with an 'F' prefix) is stamped in the form of: *850*F1xxxx* (with * denoting the limit marks = three lines within a circle) until around mid-1975 (850 Mk3) when the frame stamp often matchs the plate number, thus for example: *850*325xxx*. Some 'matching number' Mk3 frames have the 'F' prefix but it would appear that most do not.

Fast Eddie said:
I didn't know that. At least I know my frame was made in England then!
Click to expand...

IF it's an 850, then all frames from mid-'73 usually had the frame stamp, so the theory that Italian frames have it and British frames do not does not seem to bear out, unless no British (Reynolds) frames at all were used from mid-73 which I'm fairly sure was not the case.

http://atlanticgreen.com/commandoframes.htm

As far as I'm aware the 750 frames did not have any additional frame stamp (as early 750 models had no plate), even those produced during '73, unless anyone has evidence to the contrary?
Click to expand...

This is all new to me LAB! But I can tell you that my bike is definitely a matching number 850. The VIN was stamped in June '74 and it was registered in Aug '74.

And the frame is definitely not stamped. Maybe they had them made in large batches and my frame was made prior to 'mid '73'?
 
But I can tell you that my bike is definitely a matching number 850. The VIN was stamped in June '74 and it was registered in Aug '74.
Click to expand...

Unless you have lifted the Red plate and looked underneath you cannot say it does not have an extra frame number. If you have lifted it then of course you can say that.
 
Ok its not a 73, but why would my "April 72" frame, engine and gearbox have these numbers stamped....... Some can suggest that these may be false stampings but being a BM/W for 40 years and has "stamped" a squillion articles, i feel confident that my numbers are original stamps............

Therefore, i find it really hard to believe that all frames were not stamped (Unless they are aftermarket/replacement frames ).. If there are other Norton 73 owners out there. Has your bike have stampings on the head tube ?????.. If so what are the first 4 numbers..

Frame Numbers
 
Fast Eddie said:
But I can tell you that my bike is definitely a matching number 850. And the frame is definitely not stamped.
Click to expand...

OK, if you are sure about that, as the frame stamp can be faint or could be covered by paint (or especially powder coat) or as kommando said, it could be under the cert. plate? There may also be another 5-digit number under the plate, this usually takes the form of: '001xx' and its significance is still as yet unknown but probably a factory production or quality control marking of some description?

Fast Eddie said:
Maybe they had them made in large batches and my frame was made prior to 'mid '73'?
Click to expand...

It seems unlikely the frame would have been made prior to mid-'73 if it is the 065404 "Mk2" frame (with the extended inner shock gusset plates).

The frame part number is normally stamped on the front face of the LH fuel tank bracket (again, this marking can often be covered by paint).
 
olChris said:
Ok its not a 73, but why would my "April 72" frame, engine and gearbox have these numbers stamped....... Some can suggest that these may be false stampings but being a BM/W for 40 years and has "stamped" a squillion articles, i feel confident that my numbers are original stamps............
Click to expand...

That frame has had some serious modifications, so it seems plausible that person responsible also removed the plate and welded over the rivet holes and re-stamped the number onto the frame. Somehow I doubt that stamp is original, even if the serial number is correct.
 
L.A.B. said:
Fast Eddie said:
But I can tell you that my bike is definitely a matching number 850. And the frame is definitely not stamped.
Click to expand...

OK, if you are sure about that, as the frame stamp can be faint or could be covered by paint (or especially powder coat) or as kommando said, it could be under the cert. plate? There may also be another 5-digit number under the plate, this usually takes the form of: '001xx' and its significance is still as yet unknown but probably a factory production or quality control marking of some description?

Fast Eddie said:
Maybe they had them made in large batches and my frame was made prior to 'mid '73'?
Click to expand...

It seems unlikely the frame would have been made prior to mid-'73 if it is the 065404 "Mk2" frame (with the extended inner shock gusset plates).

The frame part number is normally stamped on the front face of the LH fuel tank bracket (again, this marking can often be covered by paint).
Click to expand...

I did remove the VIN plate I'm order to get it blasted then coated, I'm certain there was no number under it. However, I didn't check elsewhere, and not the fuel tank brackets. It is the frame with longer inner shock mounts. So, a mystery!
 
Fast Eddie said:
I did remove the VIN plate I'm order to get it blasted then coated, I'm certain there was no number under it. However, I didn't check elsewhere, and not the fuel tank brackets. It is the frame with longer inner shock mounts. So, a mystery!
Click to expand...

Yes, another Commando conundrum.

Is it a 'metric' or 'Imperial' (tube diameter) frame?
 
L.A.B. said:
Fast Eddie said:
I did remove the VIN plate I'm order to get it blasted then coated, I'm certain there was no number under it. However, I didn't check elsewhere, and not the fuel tank brackets. It is the frame with longer inner shock mounts. So, a mystery!
Click to expand...

Yes, another Commando conundrum.

Is it a 'metric' or 'Imperial' (tube diameter) frame?
Click to expand...


I've no idea! Tell me which tubes to measure and what the sizes are and I'll check. Bear in mind its been powder coated though, so if the difference is only a few tenths" it'll be lost in the horrid plastic coating!
 
Is it a metric or Imperial (tube diameter)frame?
Click to expand...

Measure some frame tubes, 25mm will be used instead of 25.4mm and the main tube is also a good one to measure, remember to make an allowance for paint/powder thickness which is why the main tube is good, the paint as a proportion of the overall thickness is less.
 
Fast Eddie said:
I've no idea! Tell me which tubes to measure and what the sizes are and I'll check. Bear in mind its been powder coated though, so if the difference is only a few tenths" it'll be lost in the horrid plastic coating!
Click to expand...

The spine tube is the most obvious one to check. If 'Imperial' it will be 2 1/4" O/D (so about 57-58mm), if 'metric', 60mm O/D.

If I remember correctly, I think we've had a few reports of Imperial tube frames having the 'frame' number, so that also throws the "Imperial tube = Reynolds, metric tube = Italian" frame theory into question.
 
L.A.B. said:
Fast Eddie said:
I've no idea! Tell me which tubes to measure and what the sizes are and I'll check. Bear in mind its been powder coated though, so if the difference is only a few tenths" it'll be lost in the horrid plastic coating!
Click to expand...

The spine tube is the most obvious one to check. If 'Imperial' it will be 2 1/4" O/D (so about 57-58mm), if 'metric', 60mm O/D.

If I remember correctly, I think we've had a few reports of Imperial tube frames having the 'frame' number, so that also throws the "Imperial tube = Reynolds, metric tube = Italian" frame theory into question.
Click to expand...

It's imperial, 58.3mm inc plastic coating!
 
3 of my frames have the numbers stamped on frame:
- two on the right side of the neck, one is a 130... (i dont know from where comes from) the other is a 134... and comes from Canada;
- the tirdh is a 132... on the main tube at the end of the tank and beginning of the seat (i dont know from where comes from).
I could think that the first and the third frame came all from overseas and the italian autority requested to stamp on the frame for a new licenze plate.
For those from Canada (still has canadian licenze) i dont know.
Another 850 frame has 001?? Stamped on the neck, but this numbers would be only the Verlicchi numbers.
Ciao.
Piero
 
My 850 was manufactured August 1973 according to the engine/frame no. Under the frame plate is a number 00109 and if measure the top tube it's Italian (well its around 59mm as best as I can tell)
 
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