Frame no 308858

Hi

I have an invoice for a frame purchased from Russell Motors in 1988 for a second hand 850 frame no 308858.
The bike was raced & does not have a build id plate. I know LAB doesnt like vin plates

Couple of questions
When was the frame made.
Which model
& would the frame have been stamped anywhere else?

Thanks Chris

Chris said:

I have an invoice for a frame purchased from Russell Motors in 1988 for a second hand 850 frame no 308858.
The bike was raced & does not have a build id plate. I know LAB doesnt like vin plates

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Don't I, oh.

Chris said:

When was the frame made.

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I can't tell you when the frame was made, but Commando '308858' would have been assembled during the second half (September?, October?) of 1973.

Chris said:

Which model

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850 Mk2 or Mk2A. I don't think the dispatch records exist for that period so it may not be possible to find out if it was a Roadster or Interstate, etc..

Chris said:

& would the frame have been stamped anywhere else?

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A non-matching 'frame' number (*850*F1xxxxx*) would normally have been stamped alongside the headstock certification plate at that time also a 5-digit (Verlicchi batch?) number (001xx) may be stamped on the headstock.

The frame part number (which I would expect to be 065404 for a Mk2/2A frame) is often stamped on the front face of the LH fuel tank bracket .

Additional to LAB's observations, the date is stamped on the triangular gusset on the LHS of the frame, adjacent to the top Z plate mount in month/year format.
Only seems to be the case for '72 onwards frames.

B+Bogus said:

Only seems to be the case for '72 onwards frames.

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Do we know of any 850 frames with that date stamp? As the stamp normally has an 'R' prefix which suggests it was a Reynolds frame, however, the majority of 850 frames were made by Verlicchi.

The stamp appears on 750 frames earlier than 1972 (for instance, we've seen 'R 1 71' here).

My late-ish 850 Mk3 Imperial tube frame with matching plate and headstock numbers (possibly back to UK made frames by that time) doesn't have a date stamp there.

Update, the MK3 frame is UK with the top tube 2 1/4" and marked R 07 74, 72 is not marked and is 60mm top tube, MK2A does not look marked and is 60mm Top tube but frame is rusty behind the Z plate which may make it hard to see.

I have VIN 314193, matching numbers all around.

Headstock stamped 850 F118029

Gusset stamped F-X/73 (made when in 73?)

Imperial measurementso.

But tank mount stamped 06-4140, which is a mk1 frame part number?

kommando said:

I have a MK3 frame and no date stamp, need to measure to see if its UK or Italian, there is a date stamp on the 72 frame and the 850 MK2A frame.

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Both my MkIIAs have the date stamp, looks like it didn't carry on to Mk 3s - thinking back I have a very late '71 frame with the stamp, so there y'go :roll:
Perhaps it was introduced on the 750s with the 'new' frame in '71 with changed centrestand arrangement?

Chris said:

Hi

I have an invoice for a frame purchased from Russell Motors in 1988 for a second hand 850 frame no 308858.
The bike was raced & does not have a build id plate. I know LAB doesnt like vin plates

Couple of questions
When was the frame made.
Which model
& would the frame have been stamped anywhere else?

Thanks Chris

Click to expand...

Hi Chris

What you want to know is what month and year to stamp on the replacment VIN plate. What is needed is someone with a very close VIN to let you know that information from their VIN plate.

Hi

Fàntastic, thank you for all your help. I found my number on the headstock it is F102665.
Can't read the date stamp so may have to shave of a bit of powder coating.

All the best Chris

Chris said:

I found my number on the headstock it is F102665.
Can't read the date stamp so may have to shave off a bit of powder coating.

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According to the dynodave 850 frame number list, 309911 (Nov-73) had frame F102329.
http://atlanticgreen.com/commandoframes.htm

L.A.B. said:

Chris said:

I found my number on the headstock it is F102665.
Can't read the date stamp so may have to shave off a bit of powder coating.

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According to the dynodave 850 frame number list, 309911 (Nov-73) had frame F102329.
http://atlanticgreen.com/commandoframes.htm

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Is it documented anywhere that the F numbers were consecutively built and correspond to the VIN?

Just curious

B+Bogus said:

Is it documented anywhere that the F numbers were consecutively built and correspond to the VIN?

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I don't know, but comparing serial numbers to frame numbers on the dynodave list, it seems unlikely.
As the numbers are non-matching there wouldn't seem to be much point attempting to keep the numbers consecutive.

308858 was built October 1973. I have a list of other bikes around yours that are all Oct 73 build. I am the owner-keeper of a comprehensive list of Nortons I have been compiling for many years with over 2000 VIN recorded. I have also made folders of photos for the majority of entries in my list for reference.
Incidently, there has been a Commando (two owner bike) listed a couple of times recently on eBay US stating that it is VIN 308858 in Shapleigh, Maine. Unfortunately the owner has not provided any close photos of engine, gearbox or frame ID plate so I have no idea if the bike is indeed this number or there has been a typo in the ebay listing. The listing has ended now but can still be found and perused. Ebay item number 322020999074. Regards, Tom

FWIW, my '74 Mark II has a headstock plate number stamped 30964x and date stamped 10 73
The stamping on the frame is F10425x

Snortn750 said:

308858 was built October 1973. I have a list of other bikes around yours that are all Oct 73 build. I am the owner-keeper of a comprehensive list of Nortons I have been compiling for many years with over 2000 VIN recorded. I have also made folders of photos for the majority of entries in my list for reference.
Incidently, there has been a Commando (two owner bike) listed a couple of times recently on eBay US stating that it is VIN 308858 in Shapleigh, Maine. Unfortunately the owner has not provided any close photos of engine, gearbox or frame ID plate so I have no idea if the bike is indeed this number or there has been a typo in the ebay listing. The listing has ended now but can still be found and perused. Ebay item number 322020999074. Regards, Tom

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When I searched on eBay for that auction number, eBay returned 0 results. It's still available to see, though, if you enter the URL that Google provided:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1974-Norton-com ... 7675.l2557



Sounds like an interesting body of work, your compilation of photos and serial numbers. Are you planning on publishing it? Have you already?


Curious to know what your list shows for 300212 and 314383 -- if they're on the list.


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I am interested to post my list on here. As I update it very regularly I am not sure how best to do that in a way that allows posting of the updated versions of the list and delete the superseded one? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
The only info I have of 300212 is a notation of the VIN that I found in a thread on here. 314383 I have nothing but this VIN lies in the middle of several JPN replicas I have recorded.

I have been thinking of sending Grand Paul a PM about how best to post my list but with a busy (and stressful life) I have not been active on here until now. GP, might be easy if I can email my list to you for your perusal and comments for a stat?

I have owned 10 different Commandos over the years, my present one is a 68 VIN 20M3/126426, Green on an AZ title notarised to me from the seller in July 2008.
The bike is in large lumps but was an attractive proposition because the engine and trans had not been torn down. The bike has the 2 into 1 into 2 exhaust with Decibel silencers, (and the original widow maker frame) and yes I have read and understand about the breakage issues with these frames.

(Again, with a busy life, it might be easier to email photos to GP to post on my behalf if he is interested?)

The speedo and tach have been rebuilt and the speedo zeroed. The seller stated the bike had done 50,000 miles before he began the restoration and the untouched engine and trans look like that might be true.

A nice touch was the original tyre pump is still on the frame!

Tom

Snortn750 said:

I am interested to post my list on here. As I update it very regularly I am not sure how best to do that in a way that allows posting of the updated versions of the list and delete the superseded one? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

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I suggest you get in touch with Jerry (Jerry Doe) as there might be a way of adding something like that to the 'Norton Commando Database': norton_commando_results_main.php