Follower scar oil tests (2018)

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Thanks Jim.

Fuchs will remain on my ‘don’t use’ list.

Interestingly, Fuschs 10w40 is specified for the 961s, seems to me that Bel Ray would be best in those motors too, they may have roller tappets, but are hot running air cooled lumps at the end of the day!
 
Just another 961 Fuch-up from Norton .

Sorry Nigel, couldn't resist.

Glen

I think my Thruxton R just fell over all by itself in the shop.:)
 
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Hi Jim,
Thank you for the additional tests. Regarding the Driven BR oil, does your statement mean that you would not use it for any purpose including break-in?

Thanks,
Ed
 
Hi Storm

Thanks for the information, I believe the Cam was failing when I bought it, nothing obvious apart from furry drain plug, I used Halfords classic 20w50 for a couple of changes to clean out the old oil then switched to the Silkolene comp4 20w50, certainly less fur on the drain plug with the Silkolene. I stripped off the top end after my Spanish,a trip friend said the bike was smoking occasionally from the LHS and the rest is history.

Thanks to Jim's hard work on the oil test it should be in with a better chance this time around:)
 
APRRSV said:
Hi Jim,
Thank you for the additional tests. Regarding the Driven BR oil, does your statement mean that you would not use it for any purpose including break-in?

Thanks,
Ed
Click to expand...

It may be OK for break in with a near stock motor and cool temperatures -but personally I do not use "break in" oils in a Norton.
 
Bel_Ray_10W50_V-Twin_with_Activ8_5%
Follower scar oil tests (2018)

139 lbs Load capacity -361 lbs loss with additive
no data for heat from high pressure shear
.031 heat from viscous friction

Obviously not compatible

__________________________________________________________
Bel_Ray_10W50_V-Twin_with Everglide_2.5%
Follower scar oil tests (2018)

175 lbs load -325 lbs loss with additive
3.47 heat from high pressure shear
4.48 heat from viscous friction

The Bel Ray does not seem to like, or need additives
 
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So neither the Comma 20w5o nor the Duckhams Q 20w50 are recommended for our Nortons! That's a shame, for example in the UK the Bel Ray comes out at about three times the price of the Comma, to which I think the Duckhams is priced similarly, and I'm always on a tight budget. I'm left wondering if those two mineral oils are even any good for my old Triumph Herald car, which has a similar valve train to our Nortons but is of course is water cooled … Any thoughts, Jim? If not, thanks for the testing, anyhow!

In the meantime, the Castrol Power 1 4t 20w50 looks like a good option for my Commando at its UK price, from Opie Oils on eBay, less than half that of the Bel Ray. Although my Commando is at standard tune.
 
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Jim, disappointed on the Driven BR oil, I used this to run in my race motor 90km of windy uphill down hill country back roads.
Loaded on and off the throttle .
Motor didnt get excessively hot and didnt rev it past 5000 rpm.
So hopefully it has bedded in ok.
Due for a race meeting coming up and using the Torco MPZ to race with.
keep up the good work.
Regards Mike
 
I notice the bel ray with additive and the Millers have a similar characteristic, the Millers has a friction modifier additive package already in it. Maybe someone can add as to why adding the friction modifer reduces the load ability, is it good thing or bad thing and how it relates to the oil doing its actual job in road / track use. The testing here suggests that the friction modifying packages (one added post blend and one blending it at manufacture) alter the oil to the same affect, but why?
 
comnoz said:
It may be OK for break in with a near stock motor and cool temperatures -but personally I do not use "break in" oils in a Norton.
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Not wishing to crash your thread Jim, but reading that brings up a quandary that I'll be facing soon of having a new cam and reground followers with new pistons and rings at the same time. I'm thinking that I will want the best oil protection for the cam but at the same time my rings to bed in. What would you do?
 
Dommie Nator said:
Not wishing to crash your thread Jim, but reading that brings up a quandary that I'll be facing soon of having a new cam and reground followers with new pistons and rings at the same time. I'm thinking that I will want the best oil protection for the cam but at the same time my rings to bed in. What would you do?
Click to expand...

That’s what I’ve always done.
 
For stateside people, a 4 qt container of Bel Ray 10w50 V-Twin can be found online for $51 delivered.
That is not much more than Mobil 1 V-twin, although the convenience of finding $10 qt containers of M1 at any big box store is nice!
 
Tempted to stick with me Tesco's own brand 5W-40 Oil that I used for over 20K miles. It has a Porsche AP40 rating, and costs £20 for 4 litres
 
Dommie Nator said:
What have you always done Nigel?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I neither read your post properly nor replied clearly!

I have always just put in good oil from the start and tried to ensure I run it in well, meaning, not thrashing it but ensuring it gets revved and loaded.

I don’t recall ever having a problem related to failure of rings to bed in or glazed bores etc.
 
I am already settled with the idea of Bel-Ray Synthetic V Twin 10w50 no additives for my race bike, changed every 2nd race meeting, so purchsed 8 litres per time...at a price on Amazon in France not too different to the Motul 7000 20w50 V Twin that I will now use in my OHC single....

Just a thought for those others of you budget limited, first, I sympathise, but, if you are doing one or two annual changes you are saving less than 50, maybe 60 of your local currency......how much is replacing a cam and follower going to cost in that currency? Including recovery costs, loss of vacation, other parts you deide need changing at the same time, etc......

Don't forget how much your bike is actually worth today, even if you paid nowhere near that for it!
 
While I appreciate the sentiment, it's hard to hear – I for one am already doing what I can. For example, I subscribed to a shipment of oil samples to Jim from the UK. So they're wise words, but I'm not riding for now because the bike's waiting on a top-end repair that I currently can't afford … I just do my best. :rolleyes:

The worst thing, which I'm only flagging here in case anyone's tempted to say it, is when someone says 'if you can't afford to look after your Norton properly, you shouldn't have it'. I've seen that said more than once online. I bought my Commando when I could afford it, more than 20 years ago – if anyone thinks I shouldn't have it now, they can come and take it from my cold, dead hands …! o_O
 
NortonMKIIA850 said:
So neither the Comma 20w5o nor the Duckhams Q 20w50 are recommended for our Nortons! That's a shame, for example in the UK the Bel Ray comes out at about three times the price of the Comma, to which I think the Duckhams is priced similarly, and I'm always on a tight budget. I'm left wondering if those two mineral oils are even any good for my old Triumph Herald car, which has a similar valve train to our Nortons but is of course is water cooled … Any thoughts, Jim? If not, thanks for the testing, anyhow!

In the meantime, the Castrol Power 1 4t 20w50 looks like a good option for my Commando at its UK price, from Opie Oils on eBay, less than half that of the Bel Ray. Although my Commando is at standard tune.
Click to expand...

I have more oils to test.

I don't know the prices of the UK oils but here the winner for the lowest priced oil suitable for a Norton is the Castrol GTX 20-50.

I probably wouldn't head out across the great basin in 100 degree temps at 100 mph using it, but I wouldn't be afraid of it for normal use.

Many of the oils I don't recommend for a Norton fail because they can't stand the heat of the air cooled motor, but at 220 degrees in my tester there are a lot of them that will bury the load needle.
 
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