Fibreglass Tank Issues: Vinyl Ester Resin?

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as can be seen the old liner was horrible, only covered about 1/3 of the tank :(

I got an email from a supplier from vinyl ester resin and he said that it was fine to use for repairing the tank with fibreglass cloth :D
Now to do it properly!
 
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Vinyl ester works great for repairs with glass cloth but did the supplier specifically say it was resistant to ethanol. I think it is not.
 
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i dont think youl ever get any manufacturer to say any type glass or resin is ethanol proof even if it was they wouldnt say it was 100% just to cover themselves, if i use the vinyl ester resin, THEN dp 2 coats of Caswell like Jean did it will be sealed :wink:
 
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Wish I'd caught this thread before you cut her open, as I MIGHT have some tip to closing her. How are you planning to close her up? When I do mine, I expect to do much the same way as when I cut out the floor (deck) of my sailboat a couple years back. Same principle, only the tank is much smaller. Would you happen to have left yourself a 1/2" or so of bottom 'lip' in place, after you removed the bottom? If so, you can 'line' the tank. That is, cut thin, flat plastic, say 1/2" wide. Adhere it in place so that half of it is adhered on the inside flat of the cut, while the other 1/4" projects out. Smooth, nice cuts, literally line the entire cut out. Once in place, and dried, it's then a simple matter of 'wetting' and then dropping the bottom into place. The 1/4" projecting lip will hold the bottom in position. On the bottom piece, just before slipping into place, wet it well along the sides where it will be sitting on the projected lip. Once hardened, voila, sealed tank, no need to pour anything inside to slosh about hoping to cover/seal the cut line. Like I said, exact same principle as opening/sealing with a sailboat. If anyone is interested, to better clarify my point, I can post a 'self-explaining' picture... but it'd be of a boat deck, lol's. ~Gary
 
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Gary, if the tank was unused and especially "unlined", that is the way to go, but with a tank that has been buggered up with a bad lining job, cleaning the corners is impossible, how do I know this? well I have been through that before. On my own tank which was unused, I left a flat area I could attach fiberglass strips and everything lined up perfectly, on the second one which had been "sealed" with POR15, I had a really tough time cleaning that stuff out from the corners, it was easier carving into it with chisels and sill I could not take all of it out.

Jean
 
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If was me I'd clean up the edges so mated well then JBWell the plain edges or first epoxy on some locator tabs, then just layer on gel coat like layer of vinyl ester. If you are anal maybe a glass tape over the seam with the VE-resin. If ya put some extra globs of JBWeld under the top side of tank, maybe with thick washers, you might could use a magnetic tank bag, instead of the strap on type for fiber tanks, like Peels IS tank requires. I'd think the JBWeld would be more structural secure than just the resin and fiber tape, especially if grinding back to retain the factory dimensions-contours. I may end up cutting open a perfectly intact IS fiber tank to stick in baffles for dang 1/3 low 2/3's full slosh impacts bouncing off or on road ways.
Glad to see how much meat they put in the IS tank, no wonder its taken such hard impacts so well. Top of tank can hold at least 100#'s if cushioned.
 
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Hey Gary, as of yet I have not done any more yet, although yesterday I did go and buy all the vinyl ester resin, tissue, tapes, catalyst, etc and the caswell tank liner is on it's way in the mail. When I cut out the bottom I did cut snot 15-20mm from the outside leaving a small flat spot all around the outside where I could apply plastic like u said BUT wouldn't this plastic be very susceptible to damage from fuel??? Suprisingly when I insert the tank bottom back in it lines up and sits in perfectly but if I just tapejoined and vinyl resined it back together hopefully the vinyl ester resin will run in between the joins and act like a glue, what do u guys think? Thats how u did it didn't u Jean? Unless there are some fuel proof plastics u can use for tabs?
 

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I was talking to a friend of mine who has a lot more experience with fiberglass than I about cutting open a tank. His idea is rather than cut the bottom out, to cut out the top. Then after thoroughly cleaning the inside of the tank, a sealer can be painted on to assure complete coverage. The top can be replaced after forming a lip as described earlier. His idea is that it would be easier to cut the top, especially in the steering neck area, and also that the new seam will only be exposed to the fuel when the tank is 3/4 or more full. Sounds interesting.

He's curious enough to want to try it, but he has a lot of projects ahead of it, so it won't happen for a while.
 
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hobot said:
If was me I'd clean up the edges so mated well then JBWell the plain edges or first epoxy on some locator tabs, then just layer on gel coat like layer of vinyl ester. If you are anal maybe a glass tape over the seam with the VE-resin. If ya put some extra globs of JBWeld under the top side of tank, maybe with thick washers, you might could use a magnetic tank bag, instead of the strap on type for fiber tanks, like Peels IS tank requires. I'd think the JBWeld would be more structural secure than just the resin and fiber tape, especially if grinding back to retain the factory dimensions-contours. I may end up cutting open a perfectly intact IS fiber tank to stick in baffles for dang 1/3 low 2/3's full slosh impacts bouncing off or on road ways.
Glad to see how much meat they put in the IS tank, no wonder its taken such hard impacts so well. Top of tank can hold at least 100#'s if cushioned.


That sounds a bit suspect, any flexing of the tank and it would quite likely split open along the joins, with composites you have to remember that it is the fibre that is providing the strength, the resin is there to alow the loads to be passed into the fibres. A butt joint in a composite structure is not a good idea, the only strength will come from a mecanical bond that is only a few mm thick, if possible the cut edges should scarfed back to about 12 times the thickness, the material that is removed is then 'replaced' with new tape and resin, giving a much larger bond area .
 
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You may be right Cheesy and I can't argue that a more tapered overlapped seam surface is better than a thin line seam, yet I'd bet the JBW is as tough or tougher to break apart than the base fiberglass, even on a thin line seam the thickness of the tank. If tabs JBW'd on as locators/set up stabilizers, JBW slimmed on the mated side of em would act as bulk positive back up. Then bevel grind down for a sense of more security by fiber tape and VE-resin. The thick fiber tank seems rigid enough that force of rider trunk or bars in a crash would transmit loads all the way around at once and not pop the seam but sure could puncture-shatter tank at point of impact.

I'm mostly in awe of someone cutting the IS tank open like that. Though I've done plenty of boat work as old Floridian, door skin thin veneer hulls with single light fabric and resin layer on 3 point hydro's to transome repair to hold big outboards. Would have to grind down tank seam wide and deep to get the fiberglass repair to add much real strenght in bulk and not intrude on factory deminsions and contours. In some boat cases, had to leave port hole to do insides then cover up the access hole and finish over to hide. Fiberglass fiber itch and smell or resin reminds me childhood. Only pro's used gloves and masks.
 
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yes cheesy i do like ur idea about grinding in a channel along the join this would allow my 25mm fibreglass cloth/tape to sink into the join and be pretty much flush besoming more one entire unit rather than just slapped ontop, i like it!

As for cutting out the top of the tank i did think of this and was going to try it as for sealing wise it may be superior but then its easier to hide the join underneath the tank as its not shown although it would be sanded back down and repainted, im just not sure if id cut open the top.

what do u guys think about the plastic tabs wouldnt these get damaged by the fuel, or not once there coated? are there any fuel proof plastics reccomended???

Adam
 
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I'd use strips of Al plate-sheet to conform to the contours, add strength and no worry about the solvents. Tedium is name of game at level you are taking it. It can be a real booger to get a seem to disappear and still hold well.
 
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hobot said:
I'd use strips of Al plate-sheet to conform to the contours, add strength and no worry about the solvents. Tedium is name of game at level you are taking it. It can be a real booger to get a seem to disappear and still hold well.

The JB weld can be as strong as it likes, the problem is the bond between the JB weld and the relativly thin cut edges of the tank, it is only a mechanical bond an as such wont be as strong as the chemical bonds in the original resin. Not trying to argue here either but bonding aluminium can be rather dificult, it helps a lot if it is anodised as this gives a good keyed surface, raw aluminium though (in the presence of mosture) will oxidise quite readily and the glue will just peel off it

As for the grinding/preperation the end of this PDF has some pictures of what I mean

http://www.ericgreeneassociates.com/ima ... Damage.pdf
 
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Well then I'm more in awe of cutting IS tank in half w/o a plan to mend back well.
I pecker if Al plate-strips with a vibra-tool or equivalent texture on Al and fiber glass or powdercoat to base material, then JBW em on for serious mechanical adhesion. Just make the Al contact area reasonably large Al would bend-break before adhesion does. Damhki. If really goes bad grinder tedium re-sets game.

Al strips can be bent-trimmed to hold- fit well to the mating pieces and could be slimmed all over to seal Al from what ever. Acetone and brake fluid seem to be the two universal solvents even JBW will soften up for, eventually.
Could glass strips on one side too, but then how'd you'd adhere to the 2nd part?

If it was me I'd do the above stiff Al strips epoxied with help of super-magnets to draw up and hold JBW where ya want it to set up, between the pieces not drooling away. Then I'd JBW up the exposed strips and areas on the 2nd half and the seam, then put em together and tape super magnets over the Al strips, cleaning up the excess while just a wipe off. Masking tape can hold pieces together if not a slight vacuum applied " )

Then grind tank-seam to form channel for wide fiberglass over lay to feather into a fine new surface. Best of both worlds. I've done curves on boats with soaked sheets of woven mats, and it will buckle above surface trying to make some bends and create air pockets you push out to just show up further up the line, often with some delay after you thought all was well. There is a time factor before the resin gels and just rolls up instead of spreads out. So not like painting taken as long as needed. I suggest a trial run around the tank seam with wide masking tape to see what you might need to cut and relay to keep aim going.

JBW is strongest in shear force and that's about only force that can act on tank.
Fiberglass is best in tension force and worse in flex or shearing.
Your call of course as not really that hi load an area to over engineer.
 
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Yeh I'm gonna just do all the prep, rough up the insides, finish removing old wrecked tank liner and definitely grind a channel in the joins to lay the tap in, the glass on the bottom is about 3-4 mm thick so plenty to grind a rebate channel in, not sure if the tabs are really needed although a great idea I think if the join has been grinder and a channel made tape laid it will be fine then a Caswell tank sealer aswell, and line the entire inside of the tank with fiberglass tissue and resin also, if I place the bottom into the top and rest it there it actually sits in there nicely perfectly in place, that's the PLAN :)
 
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I think the extra layer of glass inside tank is over kill, put in enough layers of Caswell 2 part sealer and can make complete strong tank out of it alone. Hope it all works out for sleek eye candy.
 
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