Fiberglass tank cleaning.

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Carbonfibre said:
....and not sure that many people are going to want to take a chance with something the seller obviously doesnt have much confidence in...........?

I'm not posting this stuff to promote Dave's products, but I've know this guy for years, and he's a very stand-up kind of guy and business man...I know for a fact that he's sold scores of these tanks without complaints...I think your use of the work "obviously" is unfair, grossly premature without any basis of fact, and based soley on your put-down style of communicating. Jeeze, Carby...why don't you email him and start some sort of productive dialog and report your findings back to us before critizing.
 
cmessenk said:
willh said:
Seems easy enough, why isn't anyone doing this?

Actually, there is. My friend Dave Ashenbrenner, who lives in Florida and goes by the eBay handle "neuxstone" has been making ethanol-resistant fuel tanks for years now. Very elaborate process of CNC crafted molds combined with a hand-layered process that enables him to offer a variety of tanks. I sent him a crappy, but original Dunstall tank that Dave is using for a mold so that I can have a back up if / when mine decides to fail in the future. Here's a link to one of his tanks. I don't have a link handy for his actual website where you can read more about his process....I'll look for it this morning and post it later....or you can email him directly if anyone has any questions for him

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dunstall-Lowlin ... es&vxp=mtr
Tanks look nice, thanks for the link.
 
cmessenk said:
Carbonfibre said:
....and not sure that many people are going to want to take a chance with something the seller obviously doesnt have much confidence in...........?

I'm not posting this stuff to promote Dave's products, but I've know this guy for years, and he's a very stand-up kind of guy and business man...I know for a fact that he's sold scores of these tanks without complaints...I think your use of the work "obviously" is unfair, grossly premature without any basis of fact, and based soley on your put-down style of communicating. Jeeze, Carby...why don't you email him and start some sort of productive dialog and report your findings back to us before critizing.

If your friend is a stand up kind of guy, then why on earth is he selling GRP tanks for race bikes, without any sort of guarantee they are proof against ethanol bearing fuels?
 
Hey Guys, Neuxstone here...
My friend Chip sent the thread on the Fiberglass tanks.
My tanks are warranted for use with pump gas, i.e. 10% ethanol all the way up to 20%. This is the standard for future ethanol fuel according to my sources.
We do not just coat the inside of regular fiberglass tanks with fuel proofer, but use a UL approved ethanol proof resin which took me a great deal of time and research to hunt down.
Fiberglass is such a generic term that it goes over most folks heads when they use the term. The reisin is the plastic binder and there are a long list of plastic resins that constitute the word "fiberglass". The correct term/classification for this composite is "FRP" (Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic).
We specifically use the same stuff the oil companies use for their long term underground storage tanks. This had to pass EPA standards to hold up a specified number of years so the thing wasn't a timebomb to our watertable. etc...
I know of no other manufacterer building their tanks with this resin, and by the mumblings I heard in this thread I'm being throwen in as one of these guys that just coats the inside with fuel proofer...(cynics pay attention here)...NOT SO!
You will find my tanks are very inexpensive, especially considering the fact this special resin costs 3x as much as the stuff the other guys use. The fit and finish are as nice or nicer than I have seen other's FRP tanks.
As far as warrantee I will repair or replace your tank at my discretion for as long as you own it...PERIOD. Just don't send a tank with crash damage.
Ducati for some reason hasn't caught on to the resin I'm using and I have been requested by many Duc owners to reproduce their tanks. Unfortunately copyright laws have my hands tied...

One last thing. I sell coating kits of this resin with a surfacing agent and a thickener available for you who have not experienced a "meltdown". It is unequaled for use as a tank barrier coating.
We can be reached at 239 290 2250 (order desk) where Cheryl can help you. My website is Legendary-Motorcycles.com .
Thank you, Dave Ashenbrener
 
Almost forgot...We make aluminum alloy tanks in house...As with the fiberglass tanks I've seen out there, these are very high quality for the money. Prices for the Glass "units" start at $329 and the alloy $1200.
Dave
 
Dave, that is really interesting. Now the big question: do you make Fastback tanks? what about Norvil tanks?
thanks

(PS I am taking for granted you do ship to the UK...)
 
neuxstone said:
Hey Guys, Neuxstone here...
My friend Chip sent the thread on the Fiberglass tanks.
My tanks are warranted for use with pump gas, i.e. 10% ethanol all the way up to 20%. This is the standard for future ethanol fuel according to my sources.
We do not just coat the inside of regular fiberglass tanks with fuel proofer, but use a UL approved ethanol proof resin which took me a great deal of time and research to hunt down.
Fiberglass is such a generic term that it goes over most folks heads when they use the term. The reisin is the plastic binder and there are a long list of plastic resins that constitute the word "fiberglass". The correct term/classification for this composite is "FRP" (Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic).
We specifically use the same stuff the oil companies use for their long term underground storage tanks. This had to pass EPA standards to hold up a specified number of years so the thing wasn't a timebomb to our watertable. etc...
I know of no other manufacterer building their tanks with this resin, and by the mumblings I heard in this thread I'm being throwen in as one of these guys that just coats the inside with fuel proofer...(cynics pay attention here)...NOT SO!
You will find my tanks are very inexpensive, especially considering the fact this special resin costs 3x as much as the stuff the other guys use. The fit and finish are as nice or nicer than I have seen other's FRP tanks.
As far as warrantee I will repair or replace your tank at my discretion for as long as you own it...PERIOD. Just don't send a tank with crash damage.
Ducati for some reason hasn't caught on to the resin I'm using and I have been requested by many Duc owners to reproduce their tanks. Unfortunately copyright laws have my hands tied...

One last thing. I sell coating kits of this resin with a surfacing agent and a thickener available for you who have not experienced a "meltdown". It is unequaled for use as a tank barrier coating.
We can be reached at 239 290 2250 (order desk) where Cheryl can help you. My website is Legendary-Motorcycles.com .
Thank you, Dave Ashenbrener


Firstly it might be a very good idea to make clear on your web site that your GRP tanks are warranted for use with ethanol fuel, outline the terms of the written guarantee you provide making this clear, and amend the suggestion that the tanks are merely lined with high cross link resin?

As to UL approved resins for UST manufacture, have a look at UL1316, which lays out the method of construction and materials to be used for making these tanks.

Not seen any of your tanks but those made by Grand Prix Speedworks (http://grandprixspeedworks.com/Home_Page.html) seem nicely made, and are currently being imported into the UK.
 
Sorry for not making it clear on the website. This is not my Day job and it is very difficult to update the website. After hearing this forum's gripes I will certainly take this into consideration as soon as I can find the time it takes to do so.

The best reason for not naming the resin I spec, is everyone including my competitors will then spec it. There is something to be said about flying under the radar.

I have a Composite Architectural element company; Architectural Masters. We occupy a 30000 sq foot building here at 4506 Mercantile Ave, Naples FL (google earth our address). Our day job is Huge Architectural Composite Contracts.

We don't hand lay the glass but use the latest low VOC chop equipment. I'm not entering a debate about what is better; just letting on how we stay competetive...

I have requests for tanks of various styles but I have to make sure there is a market because I will have to sell 2 dozen or so before the tooling even pays for itself. Moreso most of these tanks have underdrafts which necessitates a multiple part mold. After demolding, the parting lines have to be removed and much work is needed to sand, smooth and buff the part. We also have a tough time finding vendors for the antique filler necks and caps, and with the international devaluation of our dollar and shipping from overseas, the cost to the customer becomes burdonsome. I hate going to a forum where the same folks that requested a tank copy, (not understanding the cost of such an endevor) have a beef with the price...no good deed goes unpunished...!

I also read some of the thread about the "caswell type sealers" THEY SIMPLY DON'T WORK. The chemist of my distirbutor tested every coating I sent him in a quest to find one that works.

Time for me to get back to work now, so if anyone wants to get ahold of me my direct cell number is listed on the Legendary Site. I probably won't win any popularity contests here but I find it difficult to monitor forums as they are mostly just opinions and I am a busy man.
 
neuxstone said:
Time for me to get back to work now, so if anyone wants to get ahold of me my direct cell number is listed on the Legendary Site. I probably won't win any popularity contests here but I find it difficult to monitor forums as they are mostly just opinions and I am a busy man.

Don't judge everyone by a couple of negativists, I like what you are doing and my plans for my next build includes one of them, the look is right and the price is too.

Jean
 
neuxstone said:
Sorry for not making it clear on the website. This is not my Day job and it is very difficult to update the website. After hearing this forum's gripes I will certainly take this into consideration as soon as I can find the time it takes to do so.

The best reason for not naming the resin I spec, is everyone including my competitors will then spec it. There is something to be said about flying under the radar.

I have a Composite Architectural element company; Architectural Masters. We occupy a 30000 sq foot building here at 4506 Mercantile Ave, Naples FL (google earth our address). Our day job is Huge Architectural Composite Contracts.

We don't hand lay the glass but use the latest low VOC chop equipment. I'm not entering a debate about what is better; just letting on how we stay competetive...

I have requests for tanks of various styles but I have to make sure there is a market because I will have to sell 2 dozen or so before the tooling even pays for itself. Moreso most of these tanks have underdrafts which necessitates a multiple part mold. After demolding, the parting lines have to be removed and much work is needed to sand, smooth and buff the part. We also have a tough time finding vendors for the antique filler necks and caps, and with the international devaluation of our dollar and shipping from overseas, the cost to the customer becomes burdonsome. I hate going to a forum where the same folks that requested a tank copy, (not understanding the cost of such an endevor) have a beef with the price...no good deed goes unpunished...!

I also read some of the thread about the "caswell type sealers" THEY SIMPLY DON'T WORK. The chemist of my distirbutor tested every coating I sent him in a quest to find one that works.

Time for me to get back to work now, so if anyone wants to get ahold of me my direct cell number is listed on the Legendary Site. I probably won't win any popularity contests here but I find it difficult to monitor forums as they are mostly just opinions and I am a busy man.

Bearing in mind the fact that there have been an awful lot of problems with GRP tanks related to modern fuels, it seems strange you have not bothered to provide accurate information about your products on your web site, and do not denote the exact terms of the warranty you provide?

In regard to resins that work perfectly for production of GRP tanks which will be used with modern fuels, these are easy enough to find in resin manfacturers tech data sheets.

Polyplex 490 terepthalic is UL1316 approved, and in terms of cost the terepthalic systems are not much more money than a common or garden iso: http://www.fgi.com.au/files/images/stor ... rResin.pdf

Your tooling must be awfully costly to make, and if so this seems to mean the capacity to make small numbers of tanks or one off specials using rough skin moulds is very much reduced?

In terms of resins that are resistant to alcohol fuels and would seem appropriate for use as fuel tank sealer's, like those denoted with a high degree of resistance against ethanol in resin manufacturers data sheets, these are numerous and under laboratory conditions will be highly resistant to ethanol.

However the inside of an old motorcycle tank which may well not have been properly prepared, and issues to do with vibration and heat, means that lab chemical resistance tests are pretty meaningless in relation to tank sealer's, which is something that seems to have been validated by the fact that failure of sealer's based on very highly resistant resins are according to users very common.

The only sealing product that seems to offer some degree of long term success are the polysulphide materials, which have been used industrially for many years, and retain a degree of flexibility when cured, which precludes problems to do with failure caused by cracking, which are generally the main reason the snake oil sealing products fail at some stage.
 
Carbonfibre said:
Bearing in mind the fact that there have been an awful lot of problems with GRP tanks related to modern fuels, it seems strange you have not bothered to provide accurate information about your products on your web site, and do not denote the exact terms of the warranty you provide?

Carby...you sound like my six year old child. First you complain, then someone responds to your complaint in an accurate and thoughtful manner...and then you complain about the original issue again. Sheesh...grow up and get a life.
 
I got this from grandprixspeedworks tonight after I sent them a question about Norton Roadster, Interstate and FB tanks.

"Hi David, thanks for the email. Do you have some various pictures of said tank you are wanting to replicate?..if so please forward, as I am sure it is something we can do no problem. I look forward to hearing from you.
Jake Latimer
www.grandprixspeedworks.com"

I replied with another question about general or detailed pictures. They seem to be producing e-resistant tanks for under $300 according to their web site. Does anyone have pictures of the Roadster, Interstate and FB tank with any kind of measurements on them? I don't know, they may have to have a donor tank. I would buy an e-resistant tank in a heartbeat for under $300.

I would be glad to supply Roadster pics and dimensions, but I don't have access to Interstate and FB.

Dave
69S
 
I took a look at the grand prix speed works' tanks and wasn't very impressed. Only one tank option for Norton....looks more like a Triumph fit to me...
 
Well, if we could get him to make Roadster, Interstate and Fastbacks would you be interested? Where else are you going to get an e-proof tank for $300 and not have to seal it? I'm assuming he would keep his prices the same, but don't know.

Dave
69S
 
I have seen the Grand Prix Speedworks tanks which are imported into the UK by someone I know, and they seem to be very well made using an epoxy resin system, and are priced very reasonably bearing in mind they are laid up by hand, and intended primarily for serious competition use on flatrack bikes.

As there seem to be 2 people in the US producing GRP tanks fully resistant to Efuels, why not look into whether or not composite tanks are legally ok to use on road machines in the US, and then get some tooling costs from both producers in respect of Norton tanks?
 
cmessenk said:
Carbonfibre said:
Bearing in mind the fact that there have been an awful lot of problems with GRP tanks related to modern fuels, it seems strange you have not bothered to provide accurate information about your products on your web site, and do not denote the exact terms of the warranty you provide?

Carby...you sound like my six year old child. First you complain, then someone responds to your complaint in an accurate and thoughtful manner...and then you complain about the original issue again. Sheesh...grow up and get a life.


I am not entirely sure that bearing in mind the problems people have been having with GRP tanks and modern fuels, that offering tanks without any sort of written warranty, which according to the producers web site are simply lined with chemically resistant resin (a complete waste of time in my view!) is reflective of dealing with a serious issue in an "accurate and thoughtful manner".................
 
DogT said:
Well, if we could get him to make Roadster, Interstate and Fastbacks would you be interested? Where else are you going to get an e-proof tank for $300 and not have to seal it? I'm assuming he would keep his prices the same, but don't know.

Dave
69S

I'm interested Fastback +1 for me.
I've also sent a mail to Neuxstone and he also say that starting a new production is only a matter of quantity. so probs worth collecting orders and then sending a message to both companies.
 
Carbonfibre said:
cmessenk said:
Carbonfibre said:
Bearing in mind the fact that there have been an awful lot of problems with GRP tanks related to modern fuels, it seems strange you have not bothered to provide accurate information about your products on your web site, and do not denote the exact terms of the warranty you provide?

Carby...you sound like my six year old child. First you complain, then someone responds to your complaint in an accurate and thoughtful manner...and then you complain about the original issue again. Sheesh...grow up and get a life.


I am not entirely sure that bearing in mind the problems people have been having with GRP tanks and modern fuels, that offering tanks without any sort of written warranty, which according to the producers web site are simply lined with chemically resistant resin (a complete waste of time in my view!) is reflective of dealing with a serious issue in an "accurate and thoughtful manner".................

Like I said, Carby...just like my six year old....he doesn't read very well either. I believe Dave said he'd replace his tanks if they fail.....period.
 
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