Fenders and Stays

DogT and I carried on a side conversation briefly in a couple of threads about different fender types. So here it goes, hopefully once and for all we will catalog all the different fender and stay types. This may create more confusion than it solves. I have three different front fenders here. All of them are distinctly different. I have a chrome fender that was removed from a '71 (might be original), I have a stainless fender on my '73/'72 bitsa 750 (it was original to something) and I have a stainless fender off my '74 (original to the bike but this bike also has some Mk3 parts from the factory).

The chrome fender is 4-3/8 inches wide. It has a rolled front edge, rolled sides and an cut trailing edge. The stays are painted grey and are .503 inches in diameter.

The '72/73 stainless fender is 4-13/16 inches wide. It has essentially the same cross-sectional radius as the earlier fender but the extra width is rolled more sharply toward the tire (EDIT-see below for radius photos). It has a rolled front edge and sides. The trailing edge is cut. The stays are grey and .485 inches diameter.

The '74 stainless fender is 4/13/16 inches wide. It shares the same characteristics of the earlier stainless fender except the trailing edge is formed. It isn't rolled all the way over like the front and sides but it has a ridge formed into it. Its stays are grey and measure .45 inches in diameter.

Photos below.

Here is that chrome fender showing the leading edge.



Here is what the leading edge looks like from underneath. This shows how the front and the sides are both rolled.



Below is the leading edge of the '74 fender showing the rolled edges.



Next is the trailing edge of that fender, shown from underneath to show how it is formed but not rolled.



And here are comparision shots of the '72/73 fender's trailing edge and the '74 trailing edge.



This photo shows the '71 stay laying on top of the '74 stay. The 74 radius is clearly flattened in the middle. The fender the rolls sharper toward the tire.



This photo shows the leading edge of the two fenders. The 71 is stacked inside the 74.



This photo shows the two stays, stacked, from the side. It shows the relative size, plus notice the 71 stay (top) is more silver compared to the 74.



Russ

I should be getting my front fender and stays back from the powdercoater later this week so will measure them. My early '72 is chrome with rolled front and straight rear. But it has 3 holes and bolts in the rear for the stay.

the other Russ

I just measured the chrome fender on my 1968 Fastback. This is an original fender, and it measures 4.28 inches wide. This is a narrower version than the chrome fender on your 1971, which you said was 4.375. The stays measure 5.03, same as on your 1971.

Stephen Hill
Victoria, BC

As i have both a Feb 69 fastback mk1 unrestored but has been played with over the years and a 1970 that i have built to "S" specs which came to me in several boxs of pieces, the 69 fastback steel guard measures 4.25 though has been up dated with later stays as per your previous pictures, the 70 has a steel guard measuring 4.37
Though i have used early stays-

Sorry had to stop for tea, as you can see by the photo's i have posted my stays do not have the S in them that was applied in 71 to clear the 410 front tyre, also i have 2 sets of early stays 1 set an inch longer than the other, i suspect the longer ones were for the fastback and the shorter ones for the S/ Roadster, I have also noted a difference in early bridges-
Which i beleive relate to the different length of the early guard stays.
Al

Here's my input. First part numbers I have sucked from a couple of sources.

From 1968 Commando Spares list with 69/70 supplements

68 Commando (Fastback)
06.0584 Front mudguard (Home) with the pedestrian slicer?
06.0583 Front mudguard (Export)
06.0619 front mudguard stay, front and rear

69 'R'
060619A Front mudguard (Chrome) state chrome or dull
stays must be like 68, no reference

69 'S'
25542A Front mudguard
25540A Front mudguard stay

69 Commando Fastback
front mudguard must be same as 68, no listing
060619A Front mudguard stay (chrome) state chrome or black

70 Roadster only
25542 Front fender
25540 Front fender stay

From Old Britts web pages

71 Commando
062328 Front mudguard chrome
062323 Front fender stay

72 Commando
062328 Front mudguard chrome
062323 Front fender stay
063175 Front mudguard (2 holes?)

73/74 Commando
063175 Front mudguard, stainless (2 holes)
062323 Front fender stay

75 Commando
06-6204 Front mudguard stainless (2 hole)
06-2323 Front fender stay

Now what I actually know.
My original front mudguard from the 'S' measures 4.8" right behind the roll at the front, 4.38" at the bridge, 4.45 at the rear stay and here's what the bridge measures.



Here's what the stays (25540A)look like and measure.



Here's the mudguard



Now just to throw some mud on the guards, here's 3 rear mudguards, the left one is chrome from Old Britts from a 71, the centre one painted blue is the original off my S with the mounting holes between the shock tops, and the later S type with the mounting holes off a bracket attached to the web between the rear frame loop. Note also the 71 rear guard has a flat spot around the perimeter, where the 69 is circular, that is 71 is a D section and 69/70 is C section.



Andover is selling the 06.0583 in stainless (I suppose it comes with the bridge) and I think the stays too. But I think it is different than the S type in that the stays are longer and the bridge is longer. I think Norton made the S model stays shorter by an inch and the mudguard a smaller radius to avoid fouling in the S type headers, which a 71 style front mudguard/stays will do and I'm assuming even the fastback mudguards will do also. So if you're using the S type exhaust, be careful which mudguard you put on. I'm assuming the 70 Roadster has stays and a guard like the S, but am not sure.

Nelson has assured me that the later/longer 71 bridge guards will not fit with the shorter stays of the S type and visa-verse, although I have never tried it, but it makes sense.

Dave
69S

I would sugest that the difference between 06-0619 guard stay and the 25540 is that the 25540 stay is 1" shorter as dave has stated to clear the "S" exhaust, i suspect the "A" after the p/n may designate chrome.

But the 70 Roadster had chrome stays too, 25540 vs. the 'S' 25540A?

I sent an email to Andover about the difference between the 060583/060619 for the 68 and the 25542A/25540A for the 69 'S' and here's what he said.

"Hello Dave,

We have a drawing for the stay 25540 and it is around ½" shorter than
06.0619. Since the tubular stays are shorter it follows that the centre
bridge is shorter too but as we don't have a drawing for either guard or
bridge we can't be sure and this is why we don't offer a correct mudguard
and stays combination for the S type.

We can make the tubular stays to drawing, and making the correct centre
bridge would not be a problem if we had an original sample to copy -
perhaps you can help? My guess is that our existing blade would do the job
with the correct stays.

Good to be in touch with someone who seems to know his S types......

Best wishes,

Nick Hopkins"

I sent him a link to my bridge with measurements. I'm thinking like Nick does that the 060583 guard would work if it had a slightly shorter bridge and the 25540 stays. It may be that the 060583/060619 combo would clear the 'S' type exhaust too, don't know. I can just fit my pinky between the front stay nut and the 300-19 tyre, so the clearance on the 'S' type is very close.

I didn't get into rear guards with him. No one is manufacturing them either, but they seem to be available used, unlike the front ones. I'll bet most of the front ones were binned in favor of a larger tyre.

Dave
69S