Factory Insight !!!

I was at my local Harley shop booking my Ultra in for its first mot and I got talking to the service manager about my Norton and he said "there is one of my mechanics who will be interested in your bike". A young lad came out to have a look and it turns out he was an Academy Student at Norton and worked in the factory for 2 1/2 years after.Obviously as an Ex employee his observations may well be jaded!, but the main points were, Money is a definite issue with nothing spent that can't be justified, and that causes short cuts in manufacturing. I mentioned the cheap pathetic indicators and "Ji Lun" mirrors as an example and he says that they were bought in bulk for next to nothing and there are crates of them in stock. I asked why don't Norton have "After-market up grades for indicators etc and a decent range of accessories" and he said that Norton had originally tried that but he was told that there weren't enough on the road to make a profit. Which brings me to "how many", and he reckons that up to this March when he left, Norton were building no more than 7 to 8 a week.
We were talking about the less than brilliant mechanicals and he said that the factory know all about every issue and despite complaints from customers and input from the work force with practical fixes or improvements, nothing was ever done to rectify the issues because of money. Things such as batteries are the cheapest possible wholesale and has to be left on a decent optimate to last well, and obvious stuff like needing to run the motor frequently to prevent wet sumping and consequently blowing gaskets and seals when it's started with a crank case full of oil are curable and apparently the factory has a proper fix for the air box oiling up but would involve some re-tooling but was dropped due to cost issues. He also said that he had been told that the cost in parts to build a bike was between 3 and 4 thousand depending on the model before staff and overheads etc. He then told me his opinion on the management which I think are best left to the imagination, but he did have some positives. The frames are really well put together and the welders are really good, the alloy tanks are fascinating works of art, he was really enthusiastic about the tanks starting as a flat sheet and ending as the stunning finished article. He said he left because he couldn't see a long term future there and as he was originally from my area he found a job working on some other overpriced crap (my words) and moved back with his Mum.
I don't think he was saying anything we don't all know, but for the foreseeable future I shall have my Rose Tinted Glasses fixed permanently to my face and continue to rattle embarrassingly around leaking oil from my air box until I hit that magical 4000 RPM and the world becomes a better place.

Interesting Insight.
You're correct though, nothing that we didn't already know, or suspect.
Given the new line of Nortons that are about to be released on the market, I doubt that the 961 will survive, as is, for must longer.
Either Norton will eventually drop the 961 or have it completely reworked to resolve its issues, perhaps by Ricardo.

It’ll be dropped.

The future is in the 650 twin and 1200 V4 platforms IMHO (that’s not my desire, just my prediction).

Norton must have invested SO heavily in these two platforms, they need to maximise their return on that investment.

But Norton will continue to sell the 961 wherever they can for as long as it’s viable to do so. Of course this is for ‘loyalty to the Commando’ reasons... ... but is mainly about getting as much return on that investment as possible!

I collected my bike in Feb 2018 and the frame number is in the 1250 range. So I am of the opinion that fewer bikes have been made than we’re led to believe (which is supported by your man).

Frankly, I have often, and still do, wonder how Norton make enough profit out of the Commandos to survive. Yes, I know, they’re expensive bikes, but buying and running a company like that is an expensive business, not to mention development costs etc.

If I recall correctly, Garner says he spent ‘a few millions’ acquiring the Norton brand, I seriously doubt he’s recouped that yet.

So I’m hardly surprised to hear that money is tight there. I think that what they are able to do, with so little, is to be applauded and, realistically, this should be accepted as part of the ‘hand built’ / ‘niche market’ / ‘small company’ aspect of Commando ownership. Meaning, our expectations have to be suitably lowered!

A. Do we know what years said ex employee worked at Norton? As mentioned, we know the earlier years, as with any business, its going to take a struggle to get off the ground.

B. I believe the purchase price was roughly 10 million. Lets not forget the funds made by Head Queenie in Charge. (sorry if that's considered disrespectful to the monarchy)

C. Nigel.....I seriously doubt serial [HASHTAG]#1250[/HASHTAG] means that's the 1250th 961 built. Perhaps the MKII?

D. I've heard the 961 referred to as a Ponzi scheme to acquire enough funds to build Stewart's "dream bike". Perhaps.

The question was asked in the past if you would purchase one now knowing what we know with experience. Probably not. As beautiful and fun as it is, Its really not worth the hassle. I develop a new problem every. single. season. Now for you motorheads that can deal with your own repairs....sure. If I had your skills, I would. If I still had a dealership 12 miles from my house rather than 1850.....I might. I may even take the beating and unload the one I have before it becomes unsellable.

Britfan , Don't give up. Things will stabilize at Norton and you will fix your bike.

Britfan60 said:

I may even take the beating and unload the one I have before it becomes unsellable.

Click to expand...

Even if/when Norton chucks the 961 from production, I don't think existing bikes will become unsellable.
At that point it will probably become a cult classic.
Because many of the bike's component parts are re-purposed from other makes/models a creative/resourceful individual will be able to keep one running without assistance from the factory.
Maybe even eliminating the EFI and creating the first Norton 961 FCR.

From what Richard, his father Dave, Bushman and TonyA have shown, the engine is very easy to work on, and has the stoutness of a John Deere tractor. That should insure that future m/c gearheads will want to own one and "improve" the breed. The 961 is not for everyone today, same will be true in the future.

My expectation for the new 750 Command II line is based on a new liquid cooled 650 twin variant that has:

Motor bored to 750cc
Different head and cylinders with faux cooling fins (classic look) like the Triumph 1200 line
Different engine/valve covers dressed-up for classic appeal
Classic styled cradle frame but with mono-shock
USD forks but painter low sheen satin silver/grey
Classic styled tank with easy to remove or open dual seat.
7 spoke 70's styled Morris Mag wheels.
44mm FCR carbs - no just a joke - ride-by-wire cause everything will be like that eventually.

So if Garner will just get on this project before mother nature takes away my ability to actually ride a bike, I will be a happy camper.

I think what they have achieved in the last decade (or two) is impressive. Operating an engineering company comes with limitless variations of possible pit falls. Even the biggest a highest regarded manufacturers have released 'ducks', I wouldn't call anything in the Norton range a duck. If you look at the big bike and car manufacturers; their equipment is often an iteration of an existing model. This allows them to improve and market a part/product whilst minimising risk. Its rare that a bike/car is launched with no similarity to existing parts and models. The Commando could be regarded as blank sheet part. Maybe

It hasn't been an easy ride for Norton, and they've admitted they've made mistakes. I can confirm releasing a vehicle to be 'raced' or 'run on the road' is an all consuming and thankless task. But they seem to have a logical strategic plan which I hope should pay off in the future.

Regarding the mechanic, someone very clever once said; They don't build statues of the critics. (or something like that)

Something about the battery comment got me curious, so I checked mine...

It’s a ‘made in Japan’ Yuasa. Certainly not ‘the cheapest possible wholesale’!

Mine actually says ‘genuine Honda replacement part’ on it!

Brilliant!

I wish we could make a bike for 3 or 4 grand, we'd be rolling in it!

Despite what people think none of us are in this for the money, our costs would make a big manufacturer wince but we insist we put the best parts available on the bike. Norton is a product driven business, the bike and the brand comes first, the accountant second.

SG and myself know we need to grow and make money, were not daft but everything goes back in to develop new models, grow staff and give us long term sustainability.

Were only custodians of the brand and we want to do it justice and leave it for the kids.

Clearly comments from a yoof who hasn't got many miles under his belt. Now I must go and buy some cheap and nasty yuasa batteries........

Fast Eddie said:

Mine actually says ‘genuine Honda replacement part’ on it!

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Well there you go - not actually designed for a Norton.
I'm incensed, how could Norton use a Honda part, really!

Mm here’s another thought,Stuart Garner could of just stayed home & had a personal collection of every icon bike just for him self,I’m always in trouble with tatler gossip locally, for things I haven’t done or said,never for actual shannagans I have got up to.

skinthespin said:

Brilliant!

I wish we could make a bike for 3 or 4 grand, we'd be rolling in it!

Despite what people think none of us are in this for the money, our costs would make a big manufacturer wince but we insist we put the best parts available on the bike. Norton is a product driven business, the bike and the brand comes first, the accountant second.

SG and myself know we need to grow and make money, were not daft but everything goes back in to develop new models, grow staff and give us long term sustainability.

Were only custodians of the brand and we want to do it justice and leave it for the kids.

Clearly comments from a yoof who hasn't got many miles under his belt. Now I must go and buy some cheap and nasty yuasa batteries........

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I did say "Jaded" and to be fair he said some Positive stuff about the Academy and some of the manufacturing as I pointed out, and the cost of 4k was materials only, if you knock off the Vat and dealer margin I'm guessing a Sport goes out of the door for just under 11k and hopefully you are making a reasonable margin, then taking wages transport and a multitude of other costs, perhaps it's not that wildly inaccurate it's not a dig, just a guess but whatever the cost, I think SG is nuts. but I admire anyone who manufactures in this country especially a newish company and personally wish you could make 100% profit on your bikes, but as an owner, some of it rings true and having ignored all the bad press about Norton, I parted with my money and learned to live with the comedy gear shift and bag of spanners rattle and I've had just over 2000 miles of enjoyment and even after all that I my next bike will be a Domi.

I have 9400 smiling miles on mine and Lord knows I'd have easily double that if it hadn't spent 18 months in the shop. I'm just pissed off that its having problems its fourth of four years. As mentioned, its a Brembo fault, not Norton.

Fast Eddie said:

Something about the battery comment got me curious, so I checked mine...

It’s a ‘made in Japan’ Yuasa. Certainly not ‘the cheapest possible wholesale’!

Mine actually says ‘genuine Honda replacement part’ on it!

Click to expand...

Mine is a Lithium one cos the original was us as the bike has been unused by the previous owner in the hope of making money as an investment and I cant remember what make it was. It's people like him that stopped me affording a Black Shadow !!!

Mines Lithium too, Shoria. The ‘Honda quality’ Yausa is on the shelf, that’s why it was easy to check!

They say every manufacturer spoils their ship for half penny’s worth of tar – Norton appears to be saving themselves a LOT of tar! A-LL in the name of profit, it is after all a capitalist society no surprises there!

Well, FWIW I’m with Simon. Especially due to the lack of scale at Norton, there’s no way on Gods earth Commandos are built for £3-£4K.
Someone posted on here a while ago that the bill for the Ohlins and Brembo alone is nearly double that...

Ouch .