Engine oil cooler

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pierodn

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Hi.
An ENGINE OIL COOLER can be fitted even if the bike has the oil filter?.
Thanks.
Piero
 
Yes, an oil cooler can be fitted, although the concensus is that a Commando does not need an oil cooler, even in a relatively warm climate like Italy.
 
I’m not sure that’s the consensus?

An oil cooler is good for the oil. Most modern oils are designed primarily with modern water cooled engines in mind and therefore degrade far more quickly in our hot old lumps.

There’s also a school of thought that says putting a cooler in the oil feed to the cylinder head will help reduce head temperatures (Comnoz has TWO coolers doing this as I recall).

So, I’d suggest that the consensus is that a standard Cdo having light use has no need for a cooler. But a tuned Cdo, and / or one put to hard use, may well enjoy benefits.
 
An oil cooler can be beneficial under some conditions, like a highly tuned Commando, or in a very hot climate, although with a stock engine and normal use of the bike, the danger of overcooled oil is often overlooked.
 
If you want a cooler then also fit a thermostat in the circuit, that way your oil will be allowed to get hot enough to get rid of the water etc but still be cooler than without a cooler when the temps rise.
 
If you only plumb a cooler into the cylinder head feed, only a small portion of the oil will go through it, the vast majority will return directly to the tank.

Therefore, on balance, IMHO, a cooler plumbed in as such will not benefit greatly from a thermostat.
 
The best location for an oil cooler feed would be between the filter and the tank on the return side. Then you are cooling almost the entire flow and sending filtered oil through the cooler. (Or at least I think the filter is on the return line???). A thermostat would be a Good Idea here though.
 
I have run a oil cooler on all my British twin motorcycles right from new, I don't use a thermostat at all and I run them all year round summer and winter, when I brought my Norton new in 1976 it wasn't long when I deciced to run a Lochart oil cooler as the heat we get in our summers and riding in traffic the Norton use to idle to high from the heat but after putting on the oil cooler things went to normal.
The idea of a oil cooler is to cool the oil down after its gone through a hot motor, I have heard some say the oil will take longer to get up to temp with a oil cooler, I say BS the motor heats up the same time even in the cooler months, the same as having a oil tank to cool the oil down before it goes back through a hot motor, without a oil cooler pull over after riding for a while and take your side cover off and put your hand on the oil tank and see how hot it is.
I have heard people say running a oil cooler will cause any water or mositure to not evaporate, well after 43 years of running my Nortor with a oil cooler I have never had any sign of water or mositure in my oil at all.
I have gotten long life out of all my air cooled British twins running oil coolers on all of them, my Norton has over 160k miles on it and I am still running my orginal valves but has been rebored to 40thu, my 1981 Triumph Thunderbird brought new I had it for 9 years and clocked up 250k km before I did a top end rebuild on it before I sold it, so really if you live in a hot climate then a oil cooler is a must on our British bikes and one of the reasons my bikes get long life between rebuilds in my opinion is running a oil cooler, even my air cooled Triumph Thruxton has a oil cooler from the factory, but it has a long way to go to do the miles my old Norton and old Trumpies have clocked up and my new Truxton well its water cooled so no need for a oil cooler.
If you live in a cool climate then no problems but then I believe in running a good oil cooler as well good oil and your motor will love you for it and its a plus for long life of your air cooled motors.

Ashley
 
I know it's easy to get off track here but what pierodn was asking was whether you could fit an oil cooler as well as an oil filter
And the answer to that is yes
Whether you need one in Italy etc is another matter
 
Peter R said:
Yes, an oil cooler can be fitted, although the concensus is that a Commando does not need an oil cooler, even in a relatively warm climate like Italy.
Click to expand...

What consensus is that? I'm guessing from the same people who say the only rim to be used on a Commando rear is a WM-2 x19. Or those who say a Commando should NOT have an oil pressure gauge. An engine oil cooler that has a thermostat is very much needed during long, high speed runs in summer weather, say +80 Fahrenheit. If you don''t agree, then run your Commando for an hour at +80 mph in the aforementioned conditions and stick a meat thermometer in the oil tank. Then consult with a petroleum engineer from a lubrication manufacture. I did those very same things, with the CONSENSUS being to install an engine oil cooler with a thermostat.

Now, I'm sure we'll hear from someone who frequently rides his Commando under those very same conditions, yet has never had an engine failure. Of course, he has no idea how close the engine was to failing, nor how much unnecessary wear was done due to overheated oil. But there are some who still insist the earth is flat. Same for the Apollo moon landing deniers.
 
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Ok here's my bit of derailment
Why did Yamaha fit oil coolers to the UK xs1100
But not to the US ones as far as I'm aware?
 
baz said:
Ok here's my bit of derailment
Why did Yamaha fit oil coolers to the UK xs1100
But not to the US ones as far as I'm aware?
Click to expand...


What does that have to do with Nortons and an oil cooler? Let’s stick with apples to apples.

As far as I know XS1100s here in the US ran oil coolers.
 
Last edited:
Heat is the enemy of all engines. Water cooling is much more efficient than air cooling. Cooling the oil of an air cooled engine is a plus, no matter what.
 
ashman said:
I have run a oil cooler on all my British twin motorcycles right from new, I don't use a thermostat at all and I run them all year round summer and winter, when I brought my Norton new in 1976 it wasn't long when I deciced to run a Lochart oil cooler as the heat we get in our summers and riding in traffic the Norton use to idle to high from the heat but after putting on the oil cooler things went to normal.
The idea of a oil cooler is to cool the oil down after its gone through a hot motor, I have heard some say the oil will take longer to get up to temp with a oil cooler, I say BS the motor heats up the same time even in the cooler months, the same as having a oil tank to cool the oil down before it goes back through a hot motor, without a oil cooler pull over after riding for a while and take your side cover off and put your hand on the oil tank and see how hot it is.
I have heard people say running a oil cooler will cause any water or mositure to not evaporate, well after 43 years of running my Nortor with a oil cooler I have never had any sign of water or mositure in my oil at all.
I have gotten long life out of all my air cooled British twins running oil coolers on all of them, my Norton has over 160k miles on it and I am still running my orginal valves but has been rebored to 40thu, my 1981 Triumph Thunderbird brought new I had it for 9 years and clocked up 250k km before I did a top end rebuild on it before I sold it, so really if you live in a hot climate then a oil cooler is a must on our British bikes and one of the reasons my bikes get long life between rebuilds in my opinion is running a oil cooler, even my air cooled Triumph Thruxton has a oil cooler from the factory, but it has a long way to go to do the miles my old Norton and old Trumpies have clocked up and my new Truxton well its water cooled so no need for a oil cooler.
If you live in a cool climate then no problems but then I believe in running a good oil cooler as well good oil and your motor will love you for it and its a plus for long life of your air cooled motors.

Ashley
Click to expand...

Hmm, while I must admire your results, I cannot help but think that your conclusion regarding a thermostat is wrong. Do you run your car (presumably water cooled :-) ) without a thermostat in the cooling system?
The thermostat gives the oil a better chance of remaining in it's optimum temperature range, which cannot be a bad thing. They are very simple, and seldom fail. Millions and millions of cars. trucks, etc. rely on them after all.

With an oil cooler and no thermostat, the oil _will_ take longer to reach it's operating temperature simply because you have added cooling capacity to the system. You may be able to get away with this due to the robust nature of the typical Brit twin, but from an engineering point of view, it's a really poor idea.
 
SO! lets say you want to install an oil cooler (with a temperature driven thermostat) Please proved detailed info regarding :
1. plumbing routing
2. location of oil cooler
3. thermostat choice

all of the oil coolers i have dealt with were for auto engine applications, and they are not going to fit a Norton...

so lets see some pictures and product choices...
 
JimC said:
What consensus is that? I'm guessing from the same people who say the only rim to be used on a Commando rear is a WM-2 x19. Or those who say a Commando should NOT have an oil pressure gauge. An engine oil cooler that has a thermostat is very much needed during long, high speed runs in summer weather, say +80 Fahrenheit. If you don''t agree, then run your Commando for an hour at +80 mph in the aforementioned conditions and stick a meat thermometer in the oil tank. Then consult with a petroleum engineer from a lubrication manufacture. I did those very same things, with the CONSENSUS being to install an engine oil cooler with a thermostat.

Now, I'm sure we'll hear from someone who frequently rides his Commando under those very same conditions, yet has never had an engine failure. Of course, he has no idea how close the engine was to failing, nor how much unnecessary wear was done due to overheated oil. But there are some who still insist the earth is flat. Same for the Apollo moon landing deniers.
Click to expand...
You obviously have no clue what a thermostat does in the oil cooler circuit. The thermostat is only to help the oil reaching the normal operating temperature in a shorter timespan, and during continuous high speed runs the thermotat will be in full open position.
 
JimC said:
What does that have to do with Nortons and an oil cooler? Let’s stick with apples to apples.

As far as I know XS1100s here in the US ran oil coolers.
Click to expand...
As stated
It's my bit of thread derailment
I can remember reading a workshop manual for an xs1100 and noting a difference in oil capacity
When I looked at the pictures in the manual the US ones had no oil cooler
I removed mine from my Yamaha out of interest and it made no difference at all
But I wasn't racing it
 
850commando said:
SO! lets say you want to install an oil cooler (with a temperature driven thermostat) Please proved detailed info regarding :
1. plumbing routing
2. location of oil cooler
3. thermostat choice

all of the oil coolers i have dealt with were for auto engine applications, and they are not going to fit a Norton...

so lets see some pictures and product choices...
Click to expand...
Peter R said:
You obviously have no clue what a thermostat does in the oil cooler circuit. The thermostat is only to help the oil reaching the normal operating temperature in a shorter timespan, and during continuous high speed runs the thermotat will be in full open position.
Click to expand...


Quite the contrary, Peter Boy. I’m well versed on the function of a thermostat in an oil circuit that has a cooler. Why did you think otherwise? Are you reading compromised?

In the future I suggest you make comments about one’s lack of knowledge consigned to a private message. I don’t take kindly to such remarks as you made.
 
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