Electrickery

Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Messages
51
Country flag
G'day All,
I have a beautiful 1938 ES2 arriving at the end of this week which I bought off an elderly fellow who has spent the last years restoring. He has opted not to engage the Dynamo and just has it mounted there as it is only for running lights and horn via battery of course. He has never actually ridden it anywhere other than his street so I guess he never worried about it. Just charged his battery with charger to make sure all worked. He said he doesn't know a lot about electrickery so didn't want to engage dynamo in case regulator and cut out unit were faulty. Apparently a lot of Norton owners don't bother with it if they are only doing club runs. I plan on getting it all working. I like things to work the way they were designed to. My knowledge on electrickery is also fairly basic. Now if I test the voltage at the battery terminals after starting and giving a slight increase in revs voltage should sit somewhere around mid 13's ? I can then assume it's working, right ?

1. How can I tell if regulator is cutting out when it is supposed to and not overcharging battery ?
2. If it's not charging whats the way to test to see if it's the dynamo, regulator or cut out switch ?

Thanks, Glenn
 
Unless it has been modified it has 6 volt electrics, so don't expect to see 13v. They usually have an ammeter in headlamp shell which gives you an idea if the electrics are working or not. However the ammeter needle can swing about wildly so is only a rough guide. The mechanical regulators can stick if they haven't been used & the sign of that is the needle staying on a fairly significant discharge when the engine is stopped. This is because the solenoid hasn't released & battery is powering the field windings. Dynamo electrics on Nortons have switched between positive earth & negative over the years. The dynamo will work on either but may need "flashing" to set some residual magnetism. It may need flashing anyway if it hasn't been used in a while.

Here's some instructions how to do it.

"How do I polarise ('flash') a dynamo for NEGATIVE earth?"

Your battery's NEGATIVE terminal should be connected to the chassis or frame.
Disconnect the D & F wires from the dynamo. Take a wire from the unearthed (POSITIVE) terminal on the battery and 'flash' it onto the F terminal of the dynamo. That is touch the 'live' wire onto the F terminal briefly, for a second will do it. A small blue spark should be seen.
Your dynamo is now polarised NEGATIVE earth, simple as that.

(Swap POSITIVE and NEGATIVE in the above to polarise for POSITIVE earth)
This procedure may be used to 'wake up' an old dynamo which has not been used for a long period or to confirm polarity in case of any doubt, as well as to deliberately reverse the polarity.
It is a good idea to stick a prominent reminder near to the battery when the vehicle's earth polarity has been swapped, to avoid future polarity sensitive connection problems.

Ian
 
Something else to watch for is that the generator is driven by a fibre gear - check that all the teeth are intact, that the driving gear is in good condition also, and that the clutch arrangement is giving good drive. Any problems here and the fibre gear will turn to mush...

The handbook for these machines also called for the generator (dynamo) to be serviced once a year by your friendly local Lucas Service Agent. This included a clean inside, checking the brushes and lubing the bearings. This often wasn't done yearly - which may be why Lucas had a poor reputation for reliability. ?

If you are not really using the electrics ( in daytime only running), its a lot of wear and maintenance ? A regularly charged battery will go a long way with only daytime running, with only the stop light and maybe a horn beep or 2...

Opethiselps.
 
Glenn,

there is a glaring omission from your post - pictures, pictures and more pictures.
It would also be worth checking whether a fuse has been added to the electrics, i assume the ES2 is similar to the 16H in this respect and wasn't fitted with one ex factory. I have fitted a small blade type on the +ve (non earth) wire from the battery, and blown it once while being a doofus during a rewire :oops:
I am currently running the dynamo at 12V, fitted a solid state regulator inside the original box. Most of these have the option to wire for either 12V or 6V operation.
 
Given that 6v low watt halogen lamps and led taillights are available these days, what advantage is there in going to 12v ?

Unless you have the generator windings done for 12v use, the wire in there can be rather marginal for 12v use if you pull a few watts out of it too.

Nortons didn't fit fuses for many a decade - and if you go around a long corner in the dark and the fuse blows, you'll know why. Far better that your wiring melts than the lights suddenly go out....
 
Thanks guy's for the responses so far. 6V, of course. Didn't even cross my mind but in the back of it somewhere I did know old bikes were 6V. Unfortunately it's hard to post pictures when I don't have the bike yet. So, if I find that ammeter needle indicating discharge when bike is stopped I can assume sticking regulator. Would this also indicate that it is charging at full rate constantly while running and thus overcharging battery ? Is there another way to tell with multimeter if regulator is cutting out when charge is full ? I believe it doesn't cut out completely, just reverts to trickle charge. If I am getting no charge can I just put multimeter direct to generator to see if that's working and what should it read ? The point made about a battery lasting for a long time anyway with only the minimal use it will give is taken. Makes sense not to wear everything out but I would still like to know if all works properly and if I wish to run headlight for extended periods I can.
 
ozzie041974 said:
So, if I find that ammeter needle indicating discharge when bike is stopped I can assume sticking regulator. Would this also indicate that it is charging at full rate constantly while running and thus overcharging battery ? Is there another way to tell with multimeter if regulator is cutting out when charge is full ? I believe it doesn't cut out completely, just reverts to trickle charge. If I am getting no charge can I just put multimeter direct to generator to see if that's working and what should it read ?

If the cut-out solenoid is stuck it doesn't mean that you will be getting full charge all the time. There is another solenoid that controls the charging, the cut-out coil just turns the field coils on or off. There are some details here of how to adjust the regulator but I would avoid fiddling with it unless you are sure it's the problem.

http://www.scotttechnicalities.com.au/t ... 20Regs.pdf

The best thing is to replace regulator with a modern electronic regulator. I use a V-Reg one that works fine.

http://www.aoservices.co.uk/data/v-reg.htm


There's some info here on testing dynamos

http://sterlingmotorworks.com/lucas_generator_
 
Rohan said:
Given that 6v low watt halogen lamps and led taillights are available these days, what advantage is there in going to 12v ?
Unless you have the generator windings done for 12v use, the wire in there can be rather marginal for 12v use if you pull a few watts out of it too.
Nortons didn't fit fuses for many a decade - and if you go around a long corner in the dark and the fuse blows, you'll know why. Far better that your wiring melts than the lights suddenly go out....

:mrgreen: Thought i might get some feedback on that. It wasn't the original plan but my new 35/35 6V halogen fell apart as i was fitting it and the black box 6V retro look battery wouldn't hold a charge so in a fit of impatience i scavenged my Commando battery, had a 12V 35/35W headlamp bulb and wired the solid state regulator for 12V and i was mobile.
Predictions vary from instant doom through to no problem at max 35W headlamp. The ammeter swings well positive at modest revs so i'm not panicing.
 
6V illuminates the motorcycle , 12V illuminates the Road . ! :D

4 Torch batteries hooked up worked better, for 4 or 5 minutes.

Though what the heck , everyones in a hurry these dys , if you
like meandering through the countryside at night, itll light at
least 20 ft. of road .
A full moon allows you to put on some extra speed .

Just as well one of the cows was black and WHITE.
wouldntve seen the black one otherwise. Though
that was full moon only. The batteries were flat .

To be fair it was a 51 BSA BA 10 , ' sportster ' .
most loose things had fallen of years back & the
dynamo was probably untouched from new .
Still did 16.9 1/4 mile at the car club local sprint .
 
Back
Top