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Trump seems to claim that coronavirus was genetically engineered in China to derail his election campaign. However the US intelligence agencies say there is no evidence that such a thing happened. However they suggest that the virus could have accidentally escaped from a laboratory and laboratory safety in China might be an issue. I would question whether the intelligence agencies are completely apolitical. It is sometimes difficult to distinguish between murder and manslaughter.
 
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Remember when US intelligence agencies stated that Iraq had mass destruction weapons?
 

NPeteN

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The White House openly "encourages" intelligence agency conclusions that support the president's agenda. It drives Donald mad that they never do...
 

oldbeezer

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The White House openly "encourages" intelligence agency conclusions that support the president's agenda.
Have you ever heard of George W Bush? Same thing with a lot of help from Cheney just not openly.
 

Fast Eddie

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Remember when US intelligence agencies stated that Iraq had mass destruction weapons?
Yeah well we’ll never know what happened there...

The US intel was right. I know they never found any... but they knew he had it cos THEY bloody well sold it to him !!
 

oldbeezer

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Yeah well we’ll never know what happened there...
Cheney had the intel "stovepiped" (meaning all of it, none of it analyzed, sent directly to him) cherry picked what suited his goals and then presented it as evidence.
 

Fast Eddie

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Well to be fair it wasn't just you guys. We had a hand in it too, as we had done for years in Iraq. Don’t forget, the West supported and armed Sadam for decades.

So if anyone knew he had them, it was ‘us’ cos that’s where he got them...
 
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As I remember it the Bush-Cheney argument was based on a faulty British report linking Sadam to nuclear material from Niger. Joe Wilson (husband of Valerie Plame CIA) investigated and found no connection. Bush - Cheney chose to disregard that information and push the BS that supported their agenda.
 

DogT

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I remember that wmd crap. The evidence from the international newk inspectors was that the 'rocket tubes' that were supposedly in Iraq were not of the quality to use for wmd. It was well reported, but cheney and group ignored it. It was in the news if you didn't just look at stupid stuff.

What the orange moron and his cronies are doing now is trying to convince everyone that anything they hear is fake, including him. It's working to some degree too, to putin's advantage. We can hope that by Nov there's some semblance of non-ignorance left in this country. KAC needs to loose her law license for lying too.
 
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I remember that wmd crap. The evidence from the international newk inspectors was that the 'rocket tubes' that were supposedly in Iraq were not of the quality to use for wmd. It was well reported, but cheney and group ignored it. It was in the news if you didn't just look at stupid stuff.

What the orange moron and his cronies are doing now is trying to convince everyone that anything they hear is fake, including him. It's working to some degree too, to putin's advantage. We can hope that by Nov there's some semblance of non-ignorance left in this country. KAC needs to loose her law license for lying too.

Lies do not matter when the voters have a need to believe.
 

oldbeezer

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??

never mind I just realized who she is. I heard her job is to go out there and say some REALLY stupid after the orange one says something crazy so he doesn't look so bad
She has a law license? from where ? trump university?
 

DogT

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Actually both she and her husband, George, are lawyers. He is a big never trump person, I don't know how they live together. She was the first one to come out with 'alternate facts' as I remember. Read about her and throw up in wiki.
 
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With over 70,000 deaths in America, coronavirus might be considered to be corporate manslaughter on a huge scale. 'Judge John Deed - series one episode titled 'duty of care' , is worth watching. - Culpability resides with 'the directive mind'. The video is available through Pirate Bay
 

gortnipper

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Well to be fair it wasn't just you guys. We had a hand in it too, as we had done for years in Iraq. Don’t forget, the West supported and armed Sadam for decades.

So if anyone knew he had them, it was ‘us’ cos that’s where he got them...
UK has been in Iraq politically since WWI, and the Anglo-Persian Oil Company, known now as BP.

You screwed the French after signing and reneging on the 1916 Sykes-Picot by invading Mosul.

Iraq has been screwed by the West for a long time.

Oil.
 

Fast Eddie

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UK has been in Iraq politically since WWI, and the Anglo-Persian Oil Company, known now as BP.

You screwed the French after signing and reneging on the 1916 Sykes-Picot by invading Mosul.

Iraq has been screwed by the West for a long time.

Oil.
Not much argument from me on that other than to say that although oil might be the major cause today, the West were screwing things up in the region before the real oil situation was known.

It’s never possible to pin these things on one thing of course, but IMO a lot of the blame of the origin of the trouble can be put on the Sykes Picot agreement.

After the fall of the vast 400 year old Ottoman Empire, the task of how to divide up the territory wasn’t easy. Some (inc the like of T.E. Lawrence and Gertrude Bell) put forward proposals that divided the territories along ancient cultural and religious lines as there was no preconceived concept of sovereign states in the area. Lawrence in particular was obviously a big advocate of giving as much sovereignty as possible to indigenous populations. Sykes Picot scuppered this by dividing the territories up in a badly compromised way to suit French and British colonial interests. This totally ignored the cultural and religious aspects, grouping and separating factions in an unnatural way.

Lawerence, Bell and also Winston Churchill lead a campaign to correct this in the post war Paris Peace treaties and despite what was claimed at the time, they only had very limited success.

So, the region was plagued with infighting, wars, etc from the very beginning of its independence from the Ottoman Empire. Something that’s lasted to today. Later Western oil motivated interventions obviously made things worse.
 
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When Bob Hawke was PM of Australia, he was pro-Israel. However the communist union leaders were pro-Arab. Hawke got to the top of the Labor Party through the trade union movement. The Labor Party has three main factions - the extreme left, the centre left and the right wing. In Australia, anything to the right or left of the centre left of the Labor party is idiocy. That includes all of the Liberal and National parties, who are currently the government. But Hawke's problem was that in supporting Israel, he put Australia's oil supply at risk. The Communist-led unions preferred the 'even-handed approach' in Israel. The situation has not changed much to this day, except we probably don't have any commies. 1989 in Berlin changed that. Hawke, Whitlam and Keating were all from the right wing of the Labor Party.

I can only thing of three centre left people - Tom Uren, Bill Hayden and Malcolm Turnbull. Turnbull was in the Liberal Party until he was toppled for being too moderate.
 
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