Early FB recessed tank badge question

Does anyone know at what point the recessed tank badge was deleted?

Frame numbers under discussion are 1283xx and 1285xx. The earlier one was dispatched September '68.
My best guess is they should have recessed badges, but I can't be sure.

Thanks in advance

My Feb '69 130XXX still has the Badges.

possm said:

My Feb '69 130XXX still has the Badges.

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According to Roy Bacon's books, the model year change from Mk I to Mk II Fastback began with s/n 131180 (Mar '69?). While I don't take Bacon's information as gospel, based on '68 and '69 brochures and magazine ads, the badges appear in all '68 ads and brochures and none of the '69. That is the best I can conclude in 40+ years of research and inquiries. I'd love to see some definitive proof!

I have seen several early tanks with the badge recesses filled with body filler and tail sections ground down.

My 20m3 1287xx has the badges. Bacon number sounds right to me.

Thanks for the info - looks like I have some shopping to do!

I have a metalflake silver & red tank lined up for this, but it's a later one with decals; correct for '69, so not much use for this one any more
I remember getting into a dialogue a while ago about silver and Sapphire blue being an option early on for round badge bikes, and some great info came out - including a frame number which is pretty much bang on to when mine were built.

1969 Norton colours | Access Norton Forums

As the dispatch record doesn't declare a colour I guess metalflake silver & Sapphire blue has to be the way to go

Ron L said:

According to Roy Bacon's books, the model year change from Mk I to Mk II Fastback began with s/n 131180 (Mar '69?).

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It doesn't say that in my copy of Roy Bacon's Norton Twin Restoration book as it says: "Mar 1969...131180...Fastback" and, "Sept 1970...139571...Fastback Mk II".

One factory ex-employee has stated there were no 'model years' for the Commando.

L.A.B. said:

It doesn't say that in my copy of Roy Bacon's Norton Twin Restoration book as it says: "Mar 1969...131180...Fastback" and, "Sept 1970...139571...Fastback Mk II".

One factory ex-employee has stated there were no 'model years' for the Commando.

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It's all rather baffling, isn't it?
The 20M3S appeared er... sometime in '69? - 1970 according to 'a source in Staffordshire' (Can't be right, as the 20M3S 'S' Type was out in '69?), and the early points timing cover style was evidently different to later bikes. It appears that the conical primary cover also changed at around this time, but I can't be sure.
As I understand it, the 'R' type was limited to 20M3 production, and didn't appear until 1969, but again, I can't be sure.

It rather concurs with the 'no model years' statement.

For the purposes of the current discussion, it seems clear that the round badges were deleted during 20M3 production... I think

B+Bogus said:

It's all rather baffling, isn't it?

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A little complicated rather than baffling.

B+Bogus said:

The 20M3S appeared er... sometime in '69? - 1970 according to 'a source in Staffordshire' (Can't be right, as the 20M3S 'S' Type was out in '69?), and the early points timing cover style was evidently different to later bikes.

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Unfortunately, the 'Staffordshire' list is so over-simplified that it's not only misleading but downright wrong in places.

The 20M3S engine was introduced on the 'S' type at 131257 of which there's no dispute as far as I know as the parts book gives this information, however, the 20M3 engine continued on for the Fastback and 'R' type.

According to Bacon: "Sept...1969...133668...Fastback with camshaft points" (although a couple of 20M3S Fastbacks have been reported with slightly lower numbers).

The change from recessed to non-recessed tanks and 20M3 to 20M3S engine seems to be nothing to do with the change from MkI to MkII Fastback.

L.A.B. said:

It doesn't say that in my copy of Roy Bacon's Norton Twin Restoration book as it says: "Mar 1969...131180...Fastback" and, "Sept 1970...139571...Fastback Mk II".

One factory ex-employee has stated there were no 'model years' for the Commando.

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It might have been in his Norton Twins book. In any event it's not worth digging into. As I said, the brochures certainly show changes from 1968 to 1969 whether this was an intentional 'model year' change or not. There were certainly a number of changes made from 1968-1970.

As we have got used to it appears reasonably common for the factory to use obsolete parts especially if the machine was going to some far away market.