Duke it out on handling

Why I like my Cdo candy hard outside and soft in the center.
http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/08 ... dici_.html

Steve, thanks for that article, it is very interesting. It mentions that between Stoner and Rossi riding the bike, they changed the triple clamp. My feeling is that within limits the combination of tyres and chassis flex must be able to be made tolerable by altering the steering geometry. Therein lies a problem - how to you change the rake of a frame once it is built ? You can jack the rear end up or lower it, or change the triple clamp position on the staunchions, and that can create more problems. The difference between a bike feeling really bad and destroying your confidence, and feeling positive, stable while still being nimble is close to nothing in terms of adjustment of the steering geometry. With your commando - it has been detuned to suit the average rider. The first commandos flicked a few inexperienced riders up the road after they rode over 'cat's eyes' - then the geometry was changed on subsequent models. Never ride a bike without an hydraulic steering damper.

Steve, read the article and it got me to thinking I never have felt really comfy with my 69 bike did 120 mile dodge up yesterday , the clutch was slipping fair enough but it was no trouble. I just don't feel it giving me the love like it should. Back end just not planted don't get any real boff out the rear tyre . I have an avon r/rider so that is going on next week ( 100/90 x 19") and bite the bullet do the isos, might fit standard or mick H adjustables, check swing arm bushes and spindle.

What do you think , am I just going through the motions . I know the roads round your patch are poor our roads are only good in places ,when you get wheel in groove it throws bike about awful.

J

I think the flexy Cdo tube frame with bouncy rubber mounts with a robust rear link and weaker breast and head steady is the most ingenious rough road holding cycle yet fielded though only experienced by me and maybe Doug McRae so far. The rear link required welded a lug on frame tube but the top is offered for sale in a few verisons and front link simple to rig up. Just the 2 lessor links bring many reports of pleased barnstormers and likely more than enough for basic spirited safe thrills. Bevel the front iso cushions 45' leaving ~1/4"-3/8" flat rim and stuff 4-6 large cushions taped and glued on iso tube after the useless small cushions removed. Get Greg Fuaths fork kit and use the supplied valve spring spacer or put in what ever spring spacer ya like for the sag factor ya want though I like the extra 2" compression travel for taking up off road bumps-jumps and keeping front tire in traction longer and getting farther with it still in good traction plus prgogressive lessening of trail which makes steering efforts ease up the farther over ya go or the more power applied. This much should allow keeping up with the best there is but that ain't good enough for me & Peel which also has the rump rod so consider the best elites as poor dangerous corner cripples for all the reasons the extensive article discussed. Exquisite smoothness with sense of over loaded Goldwing huge inertia sense is a very pleasant side effect of hobot mods even just puttering along its very evident you ain't on no antique rubber baby buggy no more.

Everyone in the world thinks its the front that steers a cycle but the drifters and flat trackers and speedway ice spikers and off road racers and supermotards and stunt riders know better. I believe the down fall of the Duke and other metric racers is trying to get the the ends and center to stiff while i found letting the front twist in relation to the rear with compliance in the center as happens naturally with the over lapped Cdo frame/power unit solved this in spades after ya link it enough so there is no rebound but back to N on handling the differing fr/rr tire vectors.

Ya do need to stiffen frame and cradle by cross brace 1/3 way up front tubes and across rear bottom frame bend and back side of cradle. I hunt rough stuff as so flabulous to flabbergasting fine fun not to hardly feel anything upsetting which is surpremely confidence inspiring as it is sports bike embarrassing. Everyone that's most respected in handling issues but a few pilots in contact say I'm so full of shit on my claims they try to put me down as braggart nut case. Test my suggestions and see who don't know what they are missing out on.

Steve

I am dumb enough to try anything once! Sometimes dumb enough for twice. I am pulling the box and engine out hopper bike when built up to test was going to get swing arm mods done on 72 bat before assy will look at frame then. Will dook up the isos then and try for fun.

I don't like scraping pegs and knee out ,maybe at total metal loss high speed bike for taking speed off but not for old Mando. When you do too much twisty fast cornering on s bends and such specialy in wet it just chafs the inside of thigh leading to rash and john Wayne walk.

J

auldblue said:

Steve

I am dumb enough to try anything once! Sometimes dumb enough for twice. I am pulling the box and engine out hopper bike when built up to test was going to get swing arm mods done on 72 bat before assy will look at frame then. Will dook up the isos then and try for fun.

I don't like scraping pegs and knee out ,maybe at total metal loss high speed bike for taking speed off but not for old Mando. When you do too much twisty fast cornering on s bends and such specialy in wet it just chafs the inside of thigh leading to rash and john Wayne walk.
J

Click to expand...

Re; " it just chafs the inside of thigh leading to rash and john Wayne walk."

Speak for yourself :!: :shock: :roll: :?

Well oleblue I understand from seat of my pants everything the article covered and then some - which is my 3rd priority in life goals - to demo the wonders of tamed isolastic Commando with enough punch to tear tires up. A very pleasing surprise side effect of my mods is how soon the bike seems to disappear just tooling around sight seeing. Its not that exciting to me to go fast in a bee line so a lot of Peel delights was perfectly legal speed but no need to slow for the sharper turns just lay over making sure head was far enough away from double yellow through blinds. What these elites are stuck on is the point the bike wants to transition into straight steering which happens when bike starts to fall over by itself so have to both be going fast enough and putting down increasing power enough it don't finish falling down as the fork jerk the other way, then can use fork to lever bike mass onto rear patch for even sharper accelerating turn, which does twist frame as felt from grips to peg shifting but no snatch backs-rebounds in tamed isolastics - can hold it twisted like holding sling shot waiting for the shot - or can cut power, let go of bars and shoot for the stars 90's fast as a crash does. I know about the issues of fatso tires of various compounds on edge too so have lost my respect for them except as mud flotation devices not sharper harsher cornering aids. My 1st life goal is demoing how to get younger health wise with time-intelligence to prove Peel's point next decade while yoose guys decay before your time and must narrow down your flight envelopes. 3rd goal is taming THE Beast, aka The Powers That Be so I can't get arrested for speeding.

hobot,

Have been side tracked recently but sorted the workshop some what but will soon be back to the front of Mando reconstruction, some parts away just now.
Oh got to say was in town today and realised had left keys in 69 turned back to get them and there was a guy with his back to me leaning against bike, when I got to the bike , without turning round the guy said,

" A Norton , A Norton, I thought you were a BSA man" It was Red hadn't seen him this century, just shows how times change.

No 1,for me is bottom end
2 yolkes and forks(front end)
3 isos back brakes and wheels
Then I will move on got ISO adjusters just need, guts will try out spindle mod too.

Had a bit of a disaster on ebay gearbox case bearings not to tight will have to see.

I hope my MoJo is returning or this bike will never be finished the way I expect it to run.

The blue man said he would drop in and see Red (Redffers).

The most difficult thing about motorcycling as we get older is to keep the urge going. I find these days that I lose enthusiasm very quickly. On rare occasions it bites hard and strong, however not often enough. I tend to walk away from the bike for extended periods and return when I really feel like it. This forum and guys like yourself help me a lot. Today it is quite cold outside ands a bit rainy. I've got to take the pipe of My Seeley and polish the rust off and give it a repaint, however it is relatively warm inside my house. I think the bike loses this time.

Alan I must face my own pensiveness just to attempt to get to pavement w/o crashing and last few years I've tucked tail and taken my cage more often than not, which does depress me on how long I can talk myself into it. Last time out on SuVee with race compound fatso tires with my constant practice of flat tracker like and parking lot stunt skills freaked me out being almost tossed down for a few miles in a row just puttering along with locked arms on bars and knees on tank, so bad I got off it to kick tire as thought it had gone flat again, nope. BUT!!! I have learned how to regrow my neck and clear spinal cord so feel like a kid again with some hard learned riding wisdoms. I can not ignore the load you carried in past marriages Alan- been though somewhat lessor with suicide level stress, which is worse injury to mind/body/soul that a high side. Sometimes I want out of my current marriage but she's such good gal she's able to talk me out of it and accepts my crazy over reactions with her and my cycles drain/pain. I can not emphasize enough on how crashes and depression wear down the neck and brain stem which controls how well we handle stress and recover from take downs. If me and Alicia were not regrowing our poor necks we'd of killed each other in their sleep or just walked out d/t the magnifying effects of inflamed brain stem taking out of reserves to bounce with the blows and go with the flow. Ping me for the DIY neck protocols and some follow up advice and see if in a few seasons you don't feel like your young self again.

J best cycle is only as good as its weakest link so everything you listed is a vital base line to obtain but will not transform an isolastic Commando to out do elite cycles/pilots handling hi power harsh cornering I crave so much & nothing else interests or satisfies me like tri-linked hobot forked Ms Peel. I want to have a showdown with GP bikes and private specials in tighter tracks they can't hit 200 mph in the opens so will have to wait with me till Peel's going then make decision if i'm full of it or not. I swear Ms Peel mere commuting speeds, acceleration, braking and throw down cornering is more than most race bikes can tolerate at they maxed out states so shocked at the wheelies and stoppied and snatch downs my modern started doing when I hopped on it for a commute going by the G' forces so easy to do on Peel I was refreshed from worn down depressed states - that puts me off riding my modern as takes so much out of me even on great pavement taking care.

i watched the flat trackers very closely and only ones I saw that behaved like Peel on pavement were the Speedway bikes, [they toss sideways long before the actual turn point] though I refrained from mentioning this to the winning builders/riders - all of which are still mostly limited to counter steering with a foot down. I did see some instants of straight steering saves but that tended to hi side them so they let off back to phase 2 type slide load relief handling. Pavement racing is not enough to stress Peel's handling as she can harshly accelerate into/out wicked decreasing turns on rough pavement only limited by lack of power to go through even faster and avoid turning into lazy dazy wide slide flat tracker style. Frame twist city for sure but the Commando is made so flexable to take it IF only the rebounds can be tamed. Everyone else wants to limit frame twist but me he he heh...

Peel does stress me to test my strength but its not for same reasons good racers need to be athletic as Peel gets way easier to operate the harsher she's used but because her G force spikes are so strong it drains blood to dim tunnel vision if I don't do fighter pilot breath force to keep blood in head. How often do ya hear the elite racers mentioning black out acceleration in turns? They only get instances of it during hi side events so no time to even notice need to set trunk muscles - so they may not be able to take what Peel can deliver w/o some working up their health spinal wise which controls muscles tone and blood pressure. Peel has air station and at some point may need a pressure suit to explore her turn capacity with the big block blower power.