Drones Build- 1974 Commando
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If you go to Amal in England for some parts, and if the bores in the carb bodies are not too scored, I would highly recommend the hard annodised slides, these are an upgrade and are designed to make the carb behave like a mikuni and not wear out every 10,000 miles. The needle and needles jets should be replaced, make sure you get the correct needles for a 850 they are unique for that model, do your research at Amal's site.
As for the front brake, I would get the disk off to a decent brake and get them to skim the surfaces, to get the chrome and rust off.
then rebuild the caliper and lok at getting a re sleeve kit for the master cylinder, if you sleeve it down to 1/2" it will improve the front brake to modern feel and ability, well worth the effort.
Good luck and look forward to the build!
Regards Rich
As for the front brake, I would get the disk off to a decent brake and get them to skim the surfaces, to get the chrome and rust off.
then rebuild the caliper and lok at getting a re sleeve kit for the master cylinder, if you sleeve it down to 1/2" it will improve the front brake to modern feel and ability, well worth the effort.
Good luck and look forward to the build!
Regards Rich
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Quick update. I drained and strained the contents of the vinegar laced gas tank. The results were an 8 inch strainer half full with some nastiness. The good news is that very little of it was magnetic. Mostly varnish. And it seems that the varnish created a nice barrier on the metal. Where it is bare inside it looks like new. I am going to do another few days of soaking.
I was wondering if a power washer on low setting can be used to break up some of the stubborn stuff at the bottom?
I was wondering if a power washer on low setting can be used to break up some of the stubborn stuff at the bottom?
DogT
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If you can figure out a way to automatically rotate the tank, throw some short sheet rock screws in it, like a half box or so. I did that with my oil tank for maybe 8 hours or so and it cleaned it up like anything. Some say put it in the electric dryer, but I think that rotates too fast, plus you will never hear the end of it. I approached it with the wife and she agreed if I covered it with blankets and locked it in place she may be able to deal with, but I still think it rotates too fast and the screws will just attach themselves to the walls instead of rolling around knocking crap off.
Dave
69S
Dave
69S
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I put in about 30 screws and gave a good shaking around. There is still some stubborn stuff at the bottom and it is about 1/4" thick. I can pick at it and it does break up. It is just that the shape of the tank makes it difficult to get to the far side. More vinegar for now to chemically break it down.
As far as shaking it, centrifugal force would make something like a drier useless, in my opinion. A paint mixing device might have the proper type of agitation, but there is no way I am taking the chance of the tank flying across the room. I will just have to be patient with this part. I have lots of other stuff to do right now.
On my Goldwing tank I was able to get a toilet brush down inside to provide some scrubbing. A brush with a bendable wire handle may be just the ticket.
Thanks for the suggestions.
As far as shaking it, centrifugal force would make something like a drier useless, in my opinion. A paint mixing device might have the proper type of agitation, but there is no way I am taking the chance of the tank flying across the room. I will just have to be patient with this part. I have lots of other stuff to do right now.
On my Goldwing tank I was able to get a toilet brush down inside to provide some scrubbing. A brush with a bendable wire handle may be just the ticket.
Thanks for the suggestions.
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Here is a before and after of the inside of the tank. Some of the gunk at the bottom was helped along by using a fiberglass rod to poke around inside and break up some of the varnish. All that was used on the tank was vinegar and time. On the after pic there is some flash rusting. I am still soaking it. When it is complete, I will put a coat of wd40 on it to prevent further rusting. Vinegar cost me less than $10.00 US
Before:
After:
Before:
After:
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Another update and a slight correction to my original post when I was contemplating the purchase. It was stated that the engine cranks. That was as per the previous owner. It did not crank, but I figured it was still a good deal. I filled the cylinders with a 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone. And just let it sit. And sit. Today, I took it out in the street and put it in 4th gear and started to rock it. And she shot like old faithful. Both sides moving nicely so far. Also seems to be spitting out of the head gasket.
So a couple of questions:
Where is the best place/site to get a full engine gasket set? I know some of the aftermarket Honda sets are not quite up to snuff. Just looking for some of you that have done it before.
Also, when i do the carbs, should I do the floats also? If the originals are good, do they perform ok or are the new ones worth it?
The fuel feed banjos on my bike are plastic. Should they be replaced? Where are they procured?
So a couple of questions:
Where is the best place/site to get a full engine gasket set? I know some of the aftermarket Honda sets are not quite up to snuff. Just looking for some of you that have done it before.
Also, when i do the carbs, should I do the floats also? If the originals are good, do they perform ok or are the new ones worth it?
The fuel feed banjos on my bike are plastic. Should they be replaced? Where are they procured?
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Best vendor changes with the seasons and the global currency manipulations.
Some like oil nipple, TS cover, rockers, cam seal, etc, might get extras, a little birdie told me so. There's reports of flamering head gasket not being what they once were, might inquire about that when shopping. Copper is most common and a few go sans gasket.
Amal float could last forever but require a finish nail drift to move seat to set level while new type are bend adj type. About a waste of time to put normal slides back in, even it new as will be beat to snot about the time ya get used them working so well. If bodies still good bore, anodized slides are the cat's meow now. ~$30 @. What clogs carbs in the zn oxide way more than mere gas varnish and trash. Poke out pilot or mild acid bath in bath de-limmer for a few minute then rinse.
Plastic or metal banjo's, just flip coin both are fine as long as any ever are.
Both can be touchy to nip up dry yet not distort too much. Order extra O-ring seals for them too.
Some like oil nipple, TS cover, rockers, cam seal, etc, might get extras, a little birdie told me so. There's reports of flamering head gasket not being what they once were, might inquire about that when shopping. Copper is most common and a few go sans gasket.
Amal float could last forever but require a finish nail drift to move seat to set level while new type are bend adj type. About a waste of time to put normal slides back in, even it new as will be beat to snot about the time ya get used them working so well. If bodies still good bore, anodized slides are the cat's meow now. ~$30 @. What clogs carbs in the zn oxide way more than mere gas varnish and trash. Poke out pilot or mild acid bath in bath de-limmer for a few minute then rinse.
Plastic or metal banjo's, just flip coin both are fine as long as any ever are.
Both can be touchy to nip up dry yet not distort too much. Order extra O-ring seals for them too.
DogT
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drones76 said:
I'm sure any of the good Norton shops will sell you a good full engine gasket set, Walridge, OB, Fair Spares, Rabers, DomiRacer, Brit bike, etc.
I would go through the carbs fully. Get the new stay up floats which are adjustable without banging on the seat. At minimum get the gasket kit which includes all o-rings and gaskets. Make sure your needle valves in the floats don't leak and your petcocks don't leak.
Plastic banjos are asking for eventual trouble, buy the metal ones and if you have the H fuel harness, convert it to the straight through. http://www.amalcarb.co.uk/default.aspx and for tuning, http://www.jba.bc.ca/Bushmans%20Carb%20Tuning.html
Dave
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Getting ready to get my order of parts together. I still have not unstuck the slide in the carb. I am being very careful and treating it with kid gloves. I have given it a couple 24 hour baths in Berrymans and also put some PB Blaster on it over night. It does not want to budge. My next course of action is to boil it. I have not tried alcohol, yet.
The next thing is getting the exhaust off. The balance pipe seems welded to the headers. I have loosened up the 4 nuts/bolts on the balancer. I also sprayed some PB around the joints. Any other suggestions. I have no problem letting the chemicals do its thing, if that will do it. I am being overly careful not to to any damage.
Any suggestions on either of these issues?
The next thing is getting the exhaust off. The balance pipe seems welded to the headers. I have loosened up the 4 nuts/bolts on the balancer. I also sprayed some PB around the joints. Any other suggestions. I have no problem letting the chemicals do its thing, if that will do it. I am being overly careful not to to any damage.
Any suggestions on either of these issues?
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Zn oxide likely fussed slide to bore. No organic solvent can touch that. Try gentle acid boil, white vinegar or bath lime remover. for a minute or so, test and repeat till its out or obvious only brute force remains, which implies carbs only good as cores for a resleeve.
Try HI HEAT on the exhaust parts and organic solvents/lubes there. Good luck on not damaging anything or you, much more than already is.
Try HI HEAT on the exhaust parts and organic solvents/lubes there. Good luck on not damaging anything or you, much more than already is.
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I have been fighting the stuck slide for a couple of weeks to no avail. I communicated with Amal and they think I have done all I could to rescue it and it may be a lost cause. I will still continue to work on it. In the meantime, a very generous member here is sending me a 932 (R) carb for the cost of shipping. It is very much appreciated.
Onto the head. It was removed last night. A bit of carbon build up on the valves and the tops of the pistons. No visible or 'feelable' scoring in the cylinder walls. The pistons move freely. At this point on a 37 year old bike with 20k miles, is it advisable to keep going and remove the bottom half and/or split the cases to clean the sludge trap? Or should I get the top end in order and put it back together?
Can the carbon be cleaned off with steam? And can that be done to the top of the pistons with them in the jugs? From what I have read, steam is one of the best ways to get it clean.
In one of the pics below, it shows two washers. I do not know where they fell out of.
Any other suggestions, hints or old wives tales will be appreciated.
Here are a couple of pictures:
Onto the head. It was removed last night. A bit of carbon build up on the valves and the tops of the pistons. No visible or 'feelable' scoring in the cylinder walls. The pistons move freely. At this point on a 37 year old bike with 20k miles, is it advisable to keep going and remove the bottom half and/or split the cases to clean the sludge trap? Or should I get the top end in order and put it back together?
Can the carbon be cleaned off with steam? And can that be done to the top of the pistons with them in the jugs? From what I have read, steam is one of the best ways to get it clean.
In one of the pics below, it shows two washers. I do not know where they fell out of.
Any other suggestions, hints or old wives tales will be appreciated.
Here are a couple of pictures:
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You are one of the few to know about hot water especially steam to cook the carbon to a gray powder than can be whipped off with a rag. Might help to knock down the thickest crust.
Bottom ends can go 50K miles, and I've never ever heard of a Norton with so much sludge it blocked oil to rod shells so as much as I'd be curious or anal, likely fine to use bottom w/o opening it. Work while to pull barrels and check cam lobes, then re-finish the bores lightly and re-ring and carry on. Real issue is until ya run it ya don't know how oil tight the case seams are so flip a coin or decide how lucky you feel. Its not too big a deal to split the cases and just check in on stuff as not removing bearing races hassle and think of how much better you will feel about your fettering depth and sense of peace of mind whizzing along feeling the beast beneath working so hard for ya.
Bottom ends can go 50K miles, and I've never ever heard of a Norton with so much sludge it blocked oil to rod shells so as much as I'd be curious or anal, likely fine to use bottom w/o opening it. Work while to pull barrels and check cam lobes, then re-finish the bores lightly and re-ring and carry on. Real issue is until ya run it ya don't know how oil tight the case seams are so flip a coin or decide how lucky you feel. Its not too big a deal to split the cases and just check in on stuff as not removing bearing races hassle and think of how much better you will feel about your fettering depth and sense of peace of mind whizzing along feeling the beast beneath working so hard for ya.
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Update: The head is going out to have the exhaust valves replaced. In a box of stuff from the PO were two brand new exhaust valves, springs for 4 valves, split collets and spring seats and collars. The intake valves are pristine. The head will be tanked and thoroughly cleaned and checked for cracks. All this for $100. It is a retired Nascar machinist doing the work. I was introduced to him by the owner of the Brit bike shop in town (as if there is one in every town). Well, there should be.
While that is going on, I plan on doing some cleaning up of the parts that have been disassembled.
Questions:
What things should I be concerned with at this point? I plan to replace the layshaft bearing as a matter of course. Anything else I should do while I am in there?
The primary cover is removed and everything looks ok in there, although I am not sure what I should be looking for. I just wanted to get in there and clean it. It was actually very clean.
While that is going on, I plan on doing some cleaning up of the parts that have been disassembled.
Questions:
What things should I be concerned with at this point? I plan to replace the layshaft bearing as a matter of course. Anything else I should do while I am in there?
The primary cover is removed and everything looks ok in there, although I am not sure what I should be looking for. I just wanted to get in there and clean it. It was actually very clean.
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Have the top cylinder surface milled level to its base as they all are slanted ~003" off, backwards IIRC. Timsert the head studs threads and weaker front of barrel ones or all of them. Put studs in place of three small bolts that hold primary inner case to crankcase, mianly just handier to mount and no weepage when primary off now and then. Have crank dynamic balanced and un/dn items too, even the alternator rotor for rather sweeter lack of vibration all around. Clean up the casting slop that blocks air flow and clean up close viewing, especially the front air inlet area in the 'V' of barrel. Slick up the oil pump inside back plate. Cyrogenic temper as much as can afford to send out as the tempering itself is cheap and can bargain a deal too.
Do not cyro the head as will pop out the steel seats, ugh.
Do not cyro the head as will pop out the steel seats, ugh.
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