disk breaks front end option???

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Hey guys, sorry ive been away for a while :( ,ive been super busy with school and other things. so now im looking for a disk break front end so I dont have to worry about not stoping when cuts me off.I have a 1971 norton commando 750. its got the standard drum and stock tripple tree. what is a good and cheap conversion? is there anyone that knows of videos or manuals that show u a step by step guide? thanks for the help in advance. :D
 
Don't know a cheap way. Keep in mind you would have to change one or both of your lower fork legs also and get a mc for the fluid. If you sold what u have though it'd probably take a big chunk out of the cost.
 
Commando forks, wheels and brake parts come up on e-bay all the time.
 
I've been collecting parts to convert my buddies '71 to a '72 disc.
RH slider with caliper mount,
Wheel hub to mount the brake rotor,
Rotor caliper Lockheed and new friction pads,
Bar mount Lockheed master cylinder,
Caliper stand pipe and hose plus brake switch.
SS master cylinder piston and caliper pucks.
Red hot nail at least 1/16" diameter.
Then just follow factory instruction but stick the hot nail through the tiny weeny restrictor hole in the rubber boot-'valve' deep in master cylinder. W/o the factory restriction it works like a real disc brake, instead of a disc brake imitating a drum.

I lack the master cylinder and stuff to connect it to the lower parts is all.

Oh how I've tried to convince my buddy to convert, he's being a stick in the mud on the quaint 'style' of the big ole drum sluggish hard effort waiting to slow up to matter. Might be innate to factory front drums as his -69 Bonnie is just as bad.
With essentially stock set up you can have ABS like security over highway speeds yet need some care not to lock up below 45-55 depending on your excited grip.

Anywho ping me to do a deal on most of what you seek.
hobot@madisoncounty.net
 
If your going to use a stock commando disc brake I personally think you'd be wasting your money if you think stopping is much better than a drum. My 73 disc is a "bit better", but is still marginal at best if an emergency stop is required. Plus the disc version is butt ugly compared to the Norton drum version.
 
I agree the stock Norton drum is iffy.

I agree the stock Norton disc ain't much better.

I agree the drum looks better than the disc.

I disagree the disc can't be made much, much better than stock. Use the search function for details.

BTW, I suspect the drum can too, based on similar experience with an old Guzzi - modern shoes, arcing the drum, adjusting cables, etc. But this is conjecture on my part vis-a-vis the Norton.
 
I totally agree with you guys,

disk = uglyyyyy
drums= awesome look

what kind of rebuild / rebuild can I do to make my breaks actually work? :lol: is there any kind of hydrolic kits , better springs, or anything for better performance??
 
For some reason the Commando drum brakes are commanding high prices. Maybe you should offer a direct trade for the Norton disc. From my experience, 37 years riding Commandos, the Norton disc is a superior brake to the drum no mater how much you spend to improve the drum.
 
Dear bb22, there is one shared feature that my two Combats have with all the sleeved master cylinder, NO fluid pressure restriction. I got both to compare before we get lectured on the hydraulic ratio's. 12-13 mm bores do give less effort squeals for extra travel, but to me not as much an improvement just removing what I now know is stupid restriction to over come for pad to press hard on rotor right now.

Hope hobot is known for at least two Commando features I seek no more of,
one un-upsetable cornering security, the other safest secure brake capacity to maneuver, slow and stop. You can spend a lot more but its decreasing returns compared to just poking a hole and SS hose and good pads, lightened rotor and maybe a race lever. Both my SV650 and a Ninja 900 did stupid - G lowing stoppies before reaching the panic stop - G's I depend on my Combats for hazards and mistakes in setting up for a ruined corner fling but recovered to try again. Personally I've lost much respect for modern braking too but for the newest ABS I'd give a a rusty testie to have on Peel, instead of scared skill.
Is something wrong with me or just most other Commando's? Someday will find out.
 
OK, Hobot,,,,,, explain the tiny hole thing? Do you mean the tweeny tiny hole in the hard plastic piece that the rubber cup tiny hole lines up with? Never heard of that one ???
I did put a 13 mm Brembo on my MK III after my switch gear did a melt down on me. It does work better. But it's no where close to my 09' Tri SE front brake.

Tim
 
I guess after riding quite a few old bikes as well as modern bikes (2000-2010), I have a hard time saying any old british bike with a drum or norton disk are very good for stopping a bike. I've never ridden a disc brake triumph or a drum brke Norton and all of my other disc break bikes have been modern bikes of the hinckley triumph variety, so maybe triumph got it together in the late 70's, hah! I've heard some of the older jap bikes are decent, but I think you are getting into the 80's for that. The key to the original posters question is "cheap fix", Fixing an old Norton front end to stop like a modern bike could be done if you actually want to spend the money to do so. If a person wants or needs to spend the money on a new or modern equivalent brake set up there are plenty of modern retro fitting front ends or kits to keep you busy and your wallet drained for a long time. There are also an abundance of people on this list that have done it or offer a solution, but remember we are talking "cheap fix" here. Personally I find not over riding a 40 year old bikes capabilities is the cheap solution to a stopping issue and know from experience what each of my bikes will do in a given situation and ride them accordingly. Look at Paul's mono shock bike and the front end he used, it's a good example of an option, but you are changing the whole look of the vintage bike, which in his case must not have been an issue. There are a lot of others that have modern master cylinders, rotors, calipers, etc, etc, but I'm sure those are not cheap options. This is all just personal opinion of course.
 
You might talk to the guys at www.vintagebrakes.com and see what they have to say. I have a disk on my bike, but read in a thread somewhere in this forum that these guys have the know how and products to make your shoes work.

Russ
 
Tim_S said:
OK, Hobot,,,,,, explain the tiny hole thing? Do you mean the tweeny tiny hole in the hard plastic piece that the rubber cup tiny hole lines up with? Never heard of that one ???


I would also like to hear that one, as the valve shouldn't restrict the forward flow of fluid at all, and only cause a certain amount of restriction to the return flow? When the brake is operated, the fluid bypasses the "teeny tiny" hole as it flows through three much larger ports in the plastic part which then fully opens the larger hole in the rubber part of the valve.
 
Group 19, plate no. 11, Valve, p/n- 061944. a soft-ist rubber top hat shape with pin hole in middle. First experiment on Peel gave almost as much improvement in effort and feel as the 13 mm seleeving my Ken Armand. Then went through Trixie already knowing a drill mostly useless compared to at least pencil lead size nail melted thru. Its not a transformation in handling like the rump rod but it definitely puts tire squeal and lock up back into normal human grip range. There may be way better anti-fade set ups and less grip leverage by upping hydraulic ratio, but not more ability to slow and stop to the max allowed by tire and surface.

I now suspect piston pressure forces the rubber valve to squeeze down on its IO as much as force fluid pressure to the caliper. I was scared to open it up at first then realized non of the upgrades even had a restrictor, so no worry reason.
i suspect that it was way to mimic drum performance for some reason we can discuss till cows lose in the road.
Norton ratio is ~17:1, moderns ~25-27:1, 13mm m/cylinder ~19:1, 12 mm ~21:1.

I almost got out of obsolete lagging performance Commandos after my SV650 at home and NInja at corner school, as Ozarks are a mecca like the Dragons Tail to exercise a bike and pilots capacity. On first few months of pre-Peel Combat I almost got killed trying to follow moderns into sweepers after being fooled in the very close chicanes. Being a speed demon-G force addict with a twinge of competitiveness, I got very depressed thinking all the time and money I'd wasted just restoring pre-Ms Peel so didn't leak or have major items crank to head found unusable. That no way on God's Green Earth could she expect to keep up with the hot shot squads that pass through. So depressed - only model I had - make it a hard bagger short shifting hog-like potato-ing quaint cruiser,
for 1st cautious 1000 miles breaking drive train and engine run in.

Was so so depressed with all the crowd zinging past me on each trip, the day arrived to go ahead and blow her up and rid Norton finally out of my system for the likes of Ducati Monster or GSX-R750-1000 - I held WOT heartlessly till hit 6000's and extra piston kicked in and about ran TF out from under rather harder pull than my SV650 or NInja could tolerate w/o climbing to sky. They I worked up to hi power tighter and tighter corner zings till reaching level of Ninja on race rubber and track - yet had none of their lost of control sense - but not yet blown up- so got her in states that caused severe upsets in sport bike To NAIL WOT at peg scrapping leans and nothing happened but went Way Faster Around.
AMAZED as much as frustrated it didn't blow up or go out of control - I went in harder and harder till so fast in such tights no human way to turn forks or change lean in time before flying off the bluff face wagon trail highway into new zones of speed and control I'd never conceived, or seen done. It took no athletics but strong grip to hold onto bars and work throttle fast and far enough only the rear tire patch had to be paid any attention, as rest took care of itself AutoMagically!

So now I know I've got the most effective tool in the world to spank anything but another Commando set up similar to Peel, just need way more power to spank the Commando based racers in the opens and likely 200 hp bikes up to 160 or so.
Fat as those rear meats may look, they still have similar patch print size but not the shape to handle real corner loads. Same with braking, not any real advantage but less force to squeal, but are like Acetaphetamine-Tylenol, the effective dose it just below the deadly toxic dose. Not so Norton front disc, ABS like on hi speed panic pull downs and instant lock w/o white knuckles below 55-60 mph.
I've had city traffic crisis and almost crashed by too much front brake, so had to let go to re-grip then feather proper squeal stop in time.

Rest of you can keep your crippled corner and brake performance, Peel has left the vintage building and hot rod arena for whole new orbits of performance.
I actively hunted down elites to embarrass - but only ran hard with the ones I had prior discussion with on what the rules are and not risk life doing stupid excesses on mere joy rides. I"m sure there are better Cdo brakes than modifed Peel Lockeheed and more powerful in any way measured than Ms Peel, but not the abilty to use most of that advantage in leans and then not enough to catch up in opens unless over 1/10 mile space with almost that much extra for them to SLOW up enough to tolerate the chicanes at the end of the straights. Litterally I would run up on elite sports groups all tucked down and sticking knees out, while sitting upright jacket flapping milk crate full of cargo, watching their antics a few miles, then get bored to get on home and zip around them in openss they were too scared to match as there were real turns coming up too quck for them, yet Peel was still in non race just fun daily commute mode.

The un-tamed Isolastic wonderful chassis is the Main Limiting factor of Commando's. With rump link and helpers, good fork stability even stock engine Commando's can hook up more power and speed than best of the world.
I've ridden behind good loaded touring 850's with my SV650 and was scared to try to keep them in sight. I would had to max out SV power and my skills to over take in the opens or longer sweepers, risking life and limb for a little advantage.
So a well fettered Cod is pretty good to start with but can lead you into death zone if pressing just a bit more into what moderns can handle - just before they go even more nutzo than a hinging Cdo.

My only claim to fame is I'm Gravel Trained so know how much each bike can upset to self recover and never let bike get ahead of me so that brakes are needed. If you go around as fast as I can now, you must enter loss of traction at one end or the other or tank slap chassis reactions. On every other bike I have to watch out how hard to press before going out of control, on Peel I always wonder if I can even press hard enough to un-hook into next handling zone.
On over bikes I'm holding back fearing what I know is lurkikng suddenly, On Peel I am fearless knowing there is no end to how fast and sharp she can go around,
ONLY fear is some unseen hazard so no way to stop or avoid.

NEVER TRAIL BRAKE - unless going so slow engine drag could do as well.
ALWAYS ONLY HARD BRAKE - while straight ahead and upright.
You may shoot almost into on coming lane or off road edge before slow enough to spike a very sharp turn in time, but bikes, Cdo's included can take these instant hi spikes traction on tire to line back up with path to finish braking or get back on power - with new limit programed to the bone marrow.
You have way more chance in crisis to maneuver around than stop short at speed.
You also have some control to arrange impact for best out come if it come down to it. Never apply any brake on loose stuff at crawling speed unless front is perfectly lined up with rear. Or SPLAT. I cross mud and gravel flows in turns by going straight up over them till last instant to careful flick back on path.

Video someday of riding locked front a few bike lengths on Peel, other Cdo's scar me too much swapping ends uncontrollably. So with my tippy SV - pashaw.













While yo'll are always wondering how to keep up with sports bikes, I'm wondering how much further I can leave em in my dust within a few seconds.
 
hobot said:
i suspect that it was way to mimic drum performance for some reason we can discuss till cows lose in the road.
I doubt you'll get much argument with that assumption.

hobot said:
While yo'll are always wondering how to keep up with sports bikes, I'm wondering how much further I can leave em in my dust within a few seconds.
Crashing does tend to generate a lot of dust...


:mrgreen:

I keed, I keed!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
Swosheroo, I never ever ride to get scared, I KNOW me and bikes limits, so much so I likely never ever take the chances others do - because they have never crossed the edges like forced on me. All's I hear from almost all of listee's is racy corner crashing, but I've never ever crashed pressing corners, but have in every other possible way either by going too cautious or flashed down using brake creeping on loose stuff or by stoppie saves from cages zooming in the way, on such steeps no place to put foot down to stop bike falling over or sliding down hill. If all you can think about is corner handling issues as danger then you got some mean lesions to face yet. Took about 5 yrs of bike and body injury to learn most the new surprise ways one can crash w/o something actually hitting you which has nothing to do with pilot or bike quality - just fate out there hunting us all constantly.

You can bet you life I've over done cornering but so far have been able to recover and Know to never do that again, so I don't. There are fork angle limits, there are lean angle limits and there is power planting limits. They all combine to limit safety and sanity. Best way to learn is let 1/2 air out tires and then learn what that feels like,then when the most tiny hint of that is felt again you know something really bad is about to happen and back off and check for low air being ready to suddenly ride out a flat in a corner or just wind, or entering hinged zone.

There is also a state of mind to hang on and fight a recovery but risk worse crash vs just letting go or bailing off before worse impact. Once out on road among hot shots on hot bikes you may be tempted into danger trying to hang with them not knowing how suddenly a stable Cdo transforms into floppy fish off the dock into the drink. I induce it on purpose now and then just to remind me how close that lurks - to never do it accidentally. So far as I have tested Peel, is totally immune from handling upsets, which then tempts me into deadly thrills short of any fear, so far hasn't scared me a bit but for how much harder I could go in on a one way race track instead of crazy dangerous Ozarks tights.

A steering damper is often seen on bikes, but its just a comfort device not really a handling extender. It will seem to tame and let pilot go around safer but alls its doing is storing energy in chassis to be let loose uncontrollably a bit faster but no chance for fork action speed to save in time. Dampers also make a bicycle easy Commando seem like it needs power steering to relieve pilot work.
I have crashed on THE Gravel on my SV650 because loose set, small radius limited
Scott damper prevented fast fork action going pretty fast and hit pot holes while slightly leaned. Removed damper when recovering the damage.

Safe journeys and wisdom not to try to follow sport bikes in sweepers, which sports bikes better not try to follow Ms Peel and me leaving em so easy behind.
Road ways usually blown or washed clean of dust so its Peels tire grinds that throws up some rubber and bits embedded in deep cracks. I know better than to abrade or melt tire, just stay in the 10% max slip traction zone.













Morotcycler motto > never let bike get ahead of you,
Three ways possible,
*never go so fast you need brakes before corner entry and
*always be going slow enough you can stay on power and get clean away with it.
*never get on two wheels, even silent in garage as number of tales of crashing in silent stillness - by me and many others.
 
I don't know what I just read but this line was the best: "while sitting upright jacket flapping milk crate full of cargo, watching their antics a few miles, then get bored to get on home and zip around them in openss they were too scared to match as there were real turns coming up too quck for them" This has me thinking of going for a ride, I have the day off and the weather is perfect. Thanks for the fun reading Hobot! Take care guys, Chuck. :wink:
 
Vintage Brake can make your drum pretty respectable. If you insist on a disc brake, the correct ratio between caliper and master cylinder is by far the most important thing to consider. You can have the highest priced Brembo brakes available, but if they are not matched in size, i.e., correct ratio, they'll be less than optimum.
 
Horton, thanks, Its not made up statements, just putting into words after the fact.

Regardless how great the brakes are, braking in emergency is always a dicy risk.
I practice more hard braking on heading out, more than hard turning which more often than not, I just don't.

I took Lilly Thompson's quote to heart about 14 yr ago leaving big city life.
"When ya win the rat race - - - You're still a Rat!"

Same with best vintage drum spiff up, its still a drum, that tends to need strong grip, which can give grabby action and then fades too quickly and hates to work when wet. Here's some more factoids to judge which way to go for cheapest effective whoa.

http://www.vintagebrake.com/drum.htm
Send your complete wheel/brake assy. A complete turnkey assembly will be returned. Bonded shoes? Add $48.00 per pair to prepare & convert to rivets.
4 Leading shoe brakes: Re-line and arc-$350.00 w/riveted shoes, $445.00 w/bonded.
http://www.vintagebrake.com/index.html
 
Try searching Ron L 's listings, he has a nice set up using ZXR, I think, discs and brembo calipers.I run the same disc on a NISSIN 4 pot caliper ,std cyl .
I personaly feel the modern 12'' disc looks smart on the front of a commando, and stops really well.
 
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