Dave Atherton Norton flat Tracker

Not a Norton, but recognition surely called for. I have seen this guy race, it's no photoshop.

Dave Atherton Norton flat Tracker
 
acotrel said:
Are there many modern big four- stroke bikes which could be converted into the same style of flat-tracker ? The problem with much of this stuff is you have to go back in time to have fun.
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Sure. Flat track bikes based on the current Kawasaki 650 Ninja and Yamaha FZ07 4-stroke vertical twins are doing quite well in US flat track racing.

Ken
 
The Kaws were top dogs until the new Indian tracker came out. FZ-07s are coming along nicely. This year, lots of teams will have FTR 750s. KTM, Ducati and Triumph have been recent participants in the twins class. May be some Suzuki 1000-powered former Supertrackers still running. One team, with rider Macintosh Magrew, runs RS 750 Hondas, which dethroned Harley in their day in the hands of Bubba Shobert, Ricky Graham, Terry Poovey, Ronnie Jones and others. Mac's mechanic/tuner/ machinest has to make parts to keep the two RS' running. Honda no longer has any to sell and is not making more. Harley, meanwhile, has come out with 4 valve heads for their 750 Street-based XG750Rs. Should be an interesting 2018.
 
I was at Indy for Nicky Hayden's ride on the Latus Racing Ducati tracker. When urged to take up Flat Track again after his MotoGP carreer was over, Hayden set the record straight, reminding the interviewer flat track is serious racing, and not to be taken lightly or without strong commitment and that it would be pretentious of him to assume he could just jump right in and be competitive.

Was also there to see Kenny Roberts take some laps on a replica of the TZ-750-powered tracker he won the 1975 Indy Mile on. His comment; "I wish we had these tires 40 years ago." Valentino Rossi was on hand with Team Yamaha (Indy MotoGP next day). but declined to take the TZ for a spin.
 
I am strongly of the opinion that two strokes and four cylinder bikes should always be raced separately from four-stroke twins and singles. That is the distinction which occurred in the mid sixties when the multis and two strokes took over from the older technology bikes. When you beat a Commando in a race using a TR3 Yamaha, it does not mean anything so it is a waste of two motors. If I really wanted to win historic road races, I would never ride a Seeley Commando. But I don't like two-strokes or four cylinder bikes. When all the bikes in a race are twins or singles and run in capacity classes, if you win it actually means something - regardless of the expence or lack of it.
 
The level playing field is essential, but so is safety. Big British twins and singles usually take different race lines in corners compared with two strokes and four cylinder bikes. It is OK once everyone is out of the corner and blasting down the straight. But in corners where the race lines cross can be a problem. If all the bikes are of the same general type, the racing is usually safer. I used to love watching two-stroke races but when they are mixed in with other types of bike, it all becomes a dog's breakfast.
 
Danno, I was at Indy to see Roberts' rerun too. Unforgettable.
Also saw Schwantz ride his World Championship winning RG 500; went with attendees of Schwantz' Barber riding school .
 
If Roberts was on a two-stroke road racer against a few good goers, it would be well worth watching. My bike is a 'vintage' Brit bike, so in Oz it is eligible for historic racing. However I have never been a purist. It has always been a major frustration to me that I cannot ever get to race against similar air-cooled four-stroke twins. I'd like to race against Ducati Monsters, BMWs, Guzzis and similar Jap bikes - no four-valve or water-cooled motors. However it is never going to happen. Apparently Battle Of The Twins was good in America until the water-cooled four-valve Dukes got into it.
If you think about all the large capacity twin cylinder air-cooled four-stroke twins that have been made, the Commandos are right up there with the best of them. That Kenny Roberts TZ750 flat tracker was a waste of a good motor. I can think of something much better to do with it instead of scaring myself keeping it away from fences. Once upon a time we knew how to have fun. It just did not last long enough.
 
I don't kid myself. If I was riding my T250 Suzuki racer and came up against myself riding my Seeley 850, I'd probably cream the Seeley even on a short circuit - but - for what ? There was a friend of mine who had an alcohol-fuelled T20 Suzuki. One day at Calder, I was on my 500cc Triumph - we went for it over about 50 laps. I finally wore him down, but it was not easy. The mix of bike types in Australian historic road racing is silly stuff. Historic speedway sidecars are better. When you see a field full of Vincents and JAPs going for it, it is a real adrenalin rush
 
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xbacksideslider said:
Danno, I was at Indy to see Roberts' rerun too. Unforgettable.
Also saw Schwantz ride his World Championship winning RG 500; went with attendees of Schwantz' Barber riding school .
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I was sorry when they separated the Indy Mile from the MotoGP weekend and even sadder when they stopped the GP. Even though the track isn't the best [;ace for a bike race, the spectacle of the Brickyard was great and having the Mile on the same weekend was a fine bonus.
 
acotrel said:
If Roberts was on a two-stroke road racer against a few good goers, it would be well worth watching. My bike is a 'vintage' Brit bike, so in Oz it is eligible for historic racing. However I have never been a purist. It has always been a major frustration to me that I cannot ever get to race against similar air-cooled four-stroke twins. I'd like to race against Ducati Monsters, BMWs, Guzzis and similar Jap bikes - no four-valve or water-cooled motors. However it is never going to happen. Apparently Battle Of The Twins was good in America until the water-cooled four-valve Dukes got into it.
If you think about all the large capacity twin cylinder air-cooled four-stroke twins that have been made, the Commandos are right up there with the best of them. That Kenny Roberts TZ750 flat tracker was a waste of a good motor. I can think of something much better to do with it instead of scaring myself keeping it away from fences. Once upon a time we knew how to have fun. It just did not last long enough.
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Thr grainy Youtube video of Roberts' winning ride at the 1975 Indy Mile is still available. Would have loved to see it in person even though The Indiana State Fairgrounds track was a pretty piss-poor fan venue until they added jumbotrons in front of the grandstand. The TZ 750 Miler would NOT hook up, due to having little flywheel or engine braking. It's still jaw-dropping to watch him go around everyone and win on the last lap. Years later Jay Springsteen took some laps aboard the TZ and declared it "40 mph faster" than anything else of that era. Although it was banned after the '75 Indy Mile, it served notice that 4-strokes would need rules protection to continue without the ban, just like in roadracing. When the 350 Yamaha twins were beating Harleys, Triumphs and others with nearly twice the displacement, the writing was on the wall.
 
And the only waste of motors I see is in Formula One, where they shitcan the motor after a race. Most motorcycle race engines are rebuilt and recycled until there's little left but scrap.
 
Back in the 70s, a crank rebuild for a TZ750 cost about $3000. With that motor you could compete in top level road-racing. To use it on dirt is a waste of a good motor. It might have looked good, but where were the opposition going to get competitive bikes from which would match it ? 'Because I can' is never a good reason for doing anything.
 
acotrel said:
Back in the 70s, a crank rebuild for a TZ750 cost about $3000. With that motor you could compete in top level road-racing. To use it on dirt is a waste of a good motor. It might have looked good, but where were the opposition going to get competitive bikes from which would match it ? 'Because I can' is never a good reason for doing anything.
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Actually, back in the same time period, someone in the "opposition" built a bike based on a Kawasaki 2-stroke 750 triple to compete. Someone could also have built one based on the Suzuki GT750 2-stroke triple, although I don't think anyone did. Yamaha didn't have the only 750 2-strokes.

Ken
 
A speedway bike or flat-tracker based on an H2 might not be too bad, but based on an H2R would be a waste of the good stuff. A GT750 offers too many problems - if you stuff one cylinder, everything is times three - your hand is never out of your pocket. We did that with speedway sidecars, then went to H1 and H2 Kawasakis. There was one TZ750 based speedway sidecar which had modified RD350 barrels and heads - it was excellent. As solos any of those bikes would be nerve-wracking. - The power characteristics ?
 
My brother has both an H1 and an H2 Kawasaki motors in speedway sidecars - both on methanol. The H1 is all he needs to win any race, the H2 is too much. I had a video of him on the H2 at Gilman Speedway a few years ago. When it came on song, it jumped 3 metres into the bike in front of it. It chucked my brother and his passenger over the front, then jumped over both of them. It had four bends in the sidecar and even bent the rear wheel.

He made me take the race where he crashed off Youtube, but the following clips were at the same meeting. You can get an idea of what the H2 is like. The CB750 Honda is turbocharged.

 
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Dave Atherton is Kenny Coolbeth's crew chief/mechanic/tuner for 2018, so unknown how much time he will have for vintage racing the Norton in 2018. Had a chuckle with Kevin at the infield after-race party re; the starter motor in a backpack for his XR streetbike. he said when he and Dave tore the XR down, the crank was so wallowed from racing they had to scrap it and start over.
 
Dave Atherton Norton flat Tracker

Sammy Halbert talking to Dick Klamfoth, who won the Daytona in '49, '51 and '52 on a cammy Norton.
 
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