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Crankcase repair (53 Vincent restoration)

Discussion in 'Vincent' started by Buellingvincent, Mar 22, 2016.

  1. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Me too!
     
  2. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    I found a couple of pics of the set up that Patrick did on my Egli.

    Note the double sided belt to drive the Alton alternator. Also note the one off cush drive he made for it, very clever and neat.

    Second pic is the one off outer cover he made, deeper than standard and slotted for ventilation.

    The double sided belt is tricky in this application. The big Vin motor expands a lot. Precise distance of alternator drive centre to clutch centre doesn't matter much with a chain as the teeth can slide in and out a lot and cope with the expansion and contraction.

    With a belt though, its a lot more sensitive. Too tight and the belt is 'crushed' and the alternator bearings put under undue load. They'll probably fail before the belt (as mine did), so you'll at least catch the belt in time. Too loose and too much tension is put on the teeth of the belt, and it will fail. I also think the belt is put under a lot more heat in this application, so probably not aiding long belt life.

    Race bikes, without and alternator, are a different ball game and are very straightforward of course. Patrick was dead against doing this on a road bike and only did it because I twisted his arm. We both regretted it! That's why this was the first, and last, road going Egli Vincent Godet with a belt drive primary!

    003.jpg 013v.jpg
     
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  3. Buellingvincent

    Buellingvincent

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Eddie,
    Thanks for your input. I have decided to test with some Belleville Washers/Disc Springs below and above the dynamo clamps to get a slight flexibility for the dynamo against the belt.
    Just ordered a few so probably early next week I have them.
    Patrik
     
  4. Buellingvincent

    Buellingvincent

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Was just checking the thermal expansion value for alu. The difference of the shaft center distance of the crank and clutch (approx. 9") for a 200 degree Celsius (centigrade) temperature change (260 degree F) is roughly 1 mm (0.4"). I do not believe the lower section of the crank case will ever get that hot but anyway. I don't have the exact shaft center distance of dynamo and clutch available but it should be roughly half of the crank/clutch.

    Can the temperature changes really have such a big influence on the dynamo pulley to belt alignment?
     
  5. Buellingvincent

    Buellingvincent

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Some progress again. Finally it starts to look like an engine and not only as bits and pieces. :)
    Patrik

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    Well, if it did move 0.4mm, and if it was already tight, that may well be enough to be a problem.

    But that’s only one aspect, the pulleys, both front and back, are going to expand as well, thus increasing the tension.
     
  7. Buellingvincent

    Buellingvincent

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Hi Eddie, Yes many aspects. I will try it out at least and check thoroughly while the bike is cold and hot to see the variations.

    Spend most of the weekend (wife not super happy) in the garage/work shop. Now soon (I hope) time to unite the engine with the rest.

    /Patrik

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

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    Oct 4, 2013
    The ‘rest’ of a Vincent always looks surprisingly little doesn’t it?!

    Looking forward to the progress reports and riding impressions soon...
     
  9. Buellingvincent

    Buellingvincent

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Yes that's true. Only like the head lamp, rear fender, speedo, carbs and some small bits are missing. Surely the engine package is the main thing of a Vincent.

    Thought again that "now I've done with all the fixing phase", but of course yet another problem needed to be solved. I knew I would have to cut the clutch shaft but did not expect to have problems with the C20 nut. Otherwise the preassure plate won't fit. Had to reduce the height to approx 1/2". Now need to create flats for a wrench.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Buellingvincent

    Buellingvincent

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Quite some good progress. Tomorrow ignition timing and mounting generator voltage regulator. Hopefully also attaching swing arm (rear frame member - RFM).

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. worntorn

    worntorn

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    I have the Newby setup on my 1360. After reading Nigel's post about the regrets of using the belt drive on an Egli, I thought I should have a peak in there.
    Just over 4,000 miles and no problems.
    You can see a difference in belt texture where the Alton has been running, but no real wear. That shallow surface fuzz showed up after the first run around the block and hasn't changed. I think the belt will last a very long time.
    I did spend quite a while getting the tooth engagement correct. You want as much engagement as possible while retaining a tiny bit of clearance between the Alton cog and the belt when hot.
    I struggled with the decision between belt and chain. In the end, it was the weight savings that pushed me toward the belt.

    That and I wasn't sure a stock clutch or a Veetwo or V3 would hold up to the engine.
    Bob Newby made a special order setup with 7 plates instead of the standard 5.
    It holds. Just.



    That yellow crap on the fingernail is Seal All.
    ....honest

     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
  12. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2013
    That’s good to know Glen. 4000 miles with the power and torque of your big mota is a good test!
     
  13. Buellingvincent

    Buellingvincent

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Good progress during the weekend. Spent all my time awake on the bike. Soon time to see if it will start :)
    Patrik

    Saturday afternoon:
    [​IMG]


    Sunday morning:
    [​IMG]

    Very late Sunday:
    [​IMG]

    Now some cabling to fix and then time to kick!

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
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  14. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

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    Oct 4, 2013
    Looking good !

    Can’t wait for the video of it running !
     
  15. Buellingvincent

    Buellingvincent

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    For sure I will record my attempt tomorrow trying to start the Beast. Today I focused on buying the last parts needed as tomorrow June 6th is the National Day of Sweden. Needed some lamps, springs, oil, new rear lamp etc. Also waited for my latest delivery from VOC Spares. A ”Lightning rear fender/mudguard” beeing the most important one. Arrived this evening so it looks promising. Thursday is time for ”road worthiness test”, vehicle inspection (called MOT test in the UK). Not sure what it’s called in English outside of UK. Will be the last one for my bike as the Swedish or EU regulations just changed for older vehicles. Bikes older than 40 years become ”test free” once approved a last time.
    Patrik
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
  16. Buellingvincent

    Buellingvincent

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Now it is approved for road traffic again [​IMG]

    I’m very exhausted. It did not start until 23:17 (11:17 pm) last night!

    The test was 10:00 this morning. Did the last tweaks 9:44.

    Patrik

     
  17. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

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    Oct 4, 2013
    Well done sir !
     
  18. Buellingvincent

    Buellingvincent

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Thanks a lot!
    Patrik
     
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  19. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie VIP MEMBER

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    Oct 4, 2013
    How’s the running in going Patrik?

    Hope you’re taking maximum advantage of the record good weather you’re having ?!
     
  20. Buellingvincent

    Buellingvincent

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2014
    Yeah the weather has been super good. I only felt a drop or two on the way home for a minute or so.

    Well the 2000 km or 1250 miles trip from Stockholm to Travemünde in north Germany and back was maybe not the best way to run it in.
    The ride down on Friday took 13 1/2 hours so it was very exhausting to say the least. But I was happy making it. I travelled alone and even though I lost a few screws on the way I managed to fix things without having any spares (except a spare primary belt and 2 spark plugs). Tools I brought. Of course I was the last arriving at 9 pm. But the whole crowd was outside having beers and wine after their dinner so I got a nice welcoming. Got a cold beer in my hand before I manged to get off the bike.:)

    The engine and gear box is basically running well. The big problem is oil. I have the two start oil pump in the bike so the flow is doubled compared to the stock pump. Compression is 9:1. I was lazy not to check (or did not have the time to consider checking) the inner diameters of the liners. I suspect at least one of them are bigger than standard bore. The pistons and rings have standard dimensions. I get a bit of light grey smoke from the exhaust when revving up.

    I have an overpressure in the crank case so it is leaking quite a bit of oil here and there. Had to fill up oil every time I fueled up. Possibly I have set the crank case ventilation timing wrong. Also I think several of the oil seals are not tight enough. Now I have a very oily engine on the outside. Need to clean it and start analyzing.

    I managed to get the gear change mechanism work got before leaving but on the way home gear 3 and 4 quite often started to jump out of mesh. I do not like the original solution how to adjust the gear change with that excenter. I would like to be able to adjust without removing the cover. Will try to come up with my own solution. Maybe.

    I was initially riding at 90-100 kph and stopped frequently to check things. Later when I realized I spent 3 1/2 hours including 6 short stops travelling only 190 km of the 910 km to the destination I increased the speed. As the speedo wire broke after just 30 minutes I do not know the speed but would guess 110-120 kph. About 6 hours after leaving home I increased the speed once again. Guessing 120-130 kph. Very few others vehicle overtook me. I kept this speed must of the journey. After the ferry from Denmark to Germany I drove as fast as I dared. The force of the wind on my head and helmet was now quite strong as the neck muscles got strained. Guessing my top speed was 150 kph. I was only overtaken by a few Porsches and similar cars :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
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