completely rebuilt, FIRST START UP?

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staticmoves

staticmoves

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Good day all.

So under my first post, I told everyone of my storey of the boxes of parts working there way to the sublime form of a commando! can-this-box-parts-commando-t13057.html
I have been sifting through the form and finding some great info on starting a commando after it has been sitting for a while. But I have not been able to find a whole lot on what and how to start and prep one for first start after a complete rebuild. And like the commom broken record, " my appologies if there is a great post on this and I just happened to miss it "
I am at the point in the project where I am just waiting on the transmission and wheels to come back from a shop, and my hopefully last shipment of parts is going to be here in about a weeks time. At witch point I will lock myself in the garage for a straight week, and leave the overhead door cracked just enough to allow in some fresh air and an oportunity for my lovley wife to slide the odd care package, sustanace, and somthing wet in a cup, under it.
After wich point I could hopefully atempt a start.
Any advice?
 
My checklist is simple, check everything twice, methodically, make sure oil is in the sump and also in the tank, remove the spark plugs, put the bike in gear and walk it up and down the road until the oil system is fully primed ( leave one of the rocker oil lines loose to confirm flow ) and check for oil return from sump to tank.

Run in is also very important, beat it like it owes you money for 5 minutes in every hour ( atleast ), plenty of decelerating with rpm to suck heaps of fresh oil up under the rings, then beat it some more ( suggest heaps of corners ), a couple of quick oil changes in the first 100 odd miles.

Re-torque the head several times, loctite everything.
 
Josh Cox said:
My checklist is simple, check everything twice, methodically, make sure oil is in the sump and also in the tank, remove the spark plugs, put the bike in gear and walk it up and down the road until the oil system is fully primed ( leave one of the rocker oil lines loose to confirm flow ) and check for oil return from sump to tank.

Run in is also very important, beat it like it owes you money for 5 minutes in every hour ( atleast ), plenty of decelerating with rpm to suck heaps of fresh oil up under the rings, then beat it some more ( suggest heaps of corners ), a couple of quick oil changes in the first 100 odd miles.

Re-torque the head several times, loctite everything.
Click to expand...

Thank You and a few questions.
- I have loctited everything but the engine studs and bolts, as I was advised to loctite everything but engine?
- When walking bike to prime system and check for flow, should the barrels be lubed with anything, as they will be completely dry?
- During the beatings of the engine, the Clymer manual reccomends no more than 1\3rd throttle for first 500 miles, is this generally followed?
 
DO Not try to oil engine by turning it cold on new parts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Classic way to ruin cam & lifters.
Assemblely lube should be used during that phase.
Put oil in crank via TS cover off till oil dribbles out the sump drain plug, squirt oil on parts in rocker boxes enough to drain on cam lifters, put oil in tank so it wet sumps to prime oil pump, then start up with least slow turning of engine grinding parts prior then try to keep rpm over 2500 but below 5000 for about 10-15 minutes till oil vapors arise from every surface handled. AT that point diddle the carbs or timing better and check and re-torque head and barrels. Might have a fan or two set up and door open to vent the vapors and sound to the world. Main issue is to fast as can get oil flow to drain on cam and at an rpm to keep oil wedge established till the surfaces bed in. 15-20 min is classic period this occurs. Rings should seat themselves about smokeless in seconds- about as long as it takes full oil pressure to hit, ugh about 30-45 seconds of suspense, till oil seen returning to tank which can splash out of open cap of course. After its time to ride it to full warm up as it take more fuel than just in shop reving to make full heat to need to re-torque check again on cool down. Pretty much done broke or broke in by then so just stay ahead of the re-torques over next 1000 to 100,ooo miles.
 
staticmoves said:
Josh Cox said:
My checklist is simple, check everything twice, methodically, make sure oil is in the sump and also in the tank, remove the spark plugs, put the bike in gear and walk it up and down the road until the oil system is fully primed ( leave one of the rocker oil lines loose to confirm flow ) and check for oil return from sump to tank.

Run in is also very important, beat it like it owes you money for 5 minutes in every hour ( atleast ), plenty of decelerating with rpm to suck heaps of fresh oil up under the rings, then beat it some more ( suggest heaps of corners ), a couple of quick oil changes in the first 100 odd miles.

Re-torque the head several times, loctite everything.
Click to expand...

Thank You and a few questions.
- I have loctited everything but the engine studs and bolts, as I was advised to loctite everything but engine?
- When walking bike to prime system and check for flow, should the barrels be lubed with anything, as they will be completely dry?
- During the beatings of the engine, the Clymer manual reccomends no more than 1\3rd throttle for first 500 miles, is this generally followed?
Click to expand...
The barrels should be dry. They'll get wet soon enough
 
Just went through the same thing.

Other than what has already been stated about re-torquing and oiling, keep checking for loose parts.

I paid real close attention to the major nuts/bolts, but nearly forgot about some of the smaller, less integral hardware. Almost lost the lockring on my ignition switch, and a couple nuts on various other parts.
 
Dry rings and bores is the accepted way last 20 yr or so and method recommended by TotalSeal and other ring makers. Rings are a very minor part of Norton run it, ITS THE CAM to worry about and slow timid idle or concern for heat will hurt the break in purpose. Just don't let engine rpm drop below 2000 for first few minutes. Then can shut off to let smoke clear and cool down to double check then start up and be braver to hold for long minutes of sitting in the roar of successful build. If you have road way that let your rev up over 2000 for long minutes then can break cam in on road flying but don't want to be caught in traffic for idle any first 20-30 min. Blipping up - dn 2500-5000 is nerve racking in place but these things are made for it and I've put temp probes on to see it just don't get that hot w/o a load on to need much fuel to burn. Expect lots of oil leaks until levels bleed down to natural levels that are all below what manual says or drain level plugs set.
 
hobot said:
DO Not try to oil engine by turning it cold on new parts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Classic way to ruin cam & lifters.
Assemblely lube should be used during that phase.
Put oil in crank via TS cover off till oil dribbles out the sump drain plug, squirt oil on parts in rocker boxes enough to drain on cam lifters, put oil in tank so it wet sumps to prime oil pump, then start up with least slow turning of engine grinding parts prior then try to keep rpm over 2500 but below 5000 for about 10-15 minutes till oil vapors arise from every surface handled. AT that point diddle the carbs or timing better and check and re-torque head and barrels. Might have a fan or two set up and door open to vent the vapors and sound to the world. Main issue is to fast as can get oil flow to drain on cam and at an rpm to keep oil wedge established till the surfaces bed in. 15-20 min is classic period this occurs. Rings should seat themselves about smokeless in seconds- about as long as it takes full oil pressure to hit, ugh about 30-45 seconds of suspense, till oil seen returning to tank which can splash out of open cap of course. After its time to ride it to full warm up as it take more fuel than just in shop reving to make full heat to need to re-torque check again on cool down. Pretty much done broke or broke in by then so just stay ahead of the re-torques over next 1000 to 100,ooo miles.
Click to expand...

- Assembly lube just to squirt on parts in rocker boxes?
 
I agree with Mr Hobot! (This isnt always true :) )

I very much hope the engine was assembled with cam lube. Add at least a couple of egg cups of oil down the pushrod tunnels to lube the cams. Dont lug the engine and do not let the revs drop below 2000 rpm.

Let the engine cool stone cold and then retorque the head. Then retorque again at about 250 miles and say 1000m . This is if you have used composite head gasket. If you used a plain copper gasket (annealed and with copper spray) then once is enough in my experience.

I'd change the oil and filter as often as I could afford for the first 1500 miles - but thats just me.
 
johnm said:
I agree with Mr Hobot! (This isnt always true :) )

I very much hope the engine was assembled with cam lube. Add at least a couple of egg cups of oil down the pushrod tunnels to lube the cams. Dont lug the engine and do not let the revs drop below 2000 rpm.

Let the engine cool stone cold and then retorque the head. Then retorque again at about 250 miles and say 1000m . This is if you have used composite head gasket. If you used a plain copper gasket (annealed and with copper spray) then once is enough in my experience.

I'd change the oil and filter as often as I could afford for the first 1500 miles - but thats just me.
Click to expand...

The individuale who rebuilt the engine for me, has built a many daytona winning norton race engines and has my full confidence, though at the time I had not the knowledge to ask him if he used assembly lube, though I would imagine that would be is common place methods.

And again thanks to all for your time, Great Posts! 8)
 
staticmoves said:
johnm said:
I agree with Mr Hobot! (This isnt always true :) )

I very much hope the engine was assembled with cam lube. Add at least a couple of egg cups of oil down the pushrod tunnels to lube the cams. Dont lug the engine and do not let the revs drop below 2000 rpm.

Let the engine cool stone cold and then retorque the head. Then retorque again at about 250 miles and say 1000m . This is if you have used composite head gasket. If you used a plain copper gasket (annealed and with copper spray) then once is enough in my experience.

I'd change the oil and filter as often as I could afford for the first 1500 miles - but thats just me.
Click to expand...

The individuale who rebuilt the engine for me, has built a many daytona winning norton race engines and has my full confidence, though at the time I had not the knowledge to ask him if he used assembly lube, though I would imagine that would be is common place methods.

And again thanks to all for your time, Great Posts! 8)
Click to expand...


...ask your engine builder what HE wants for start up procedure, for several reasons, one being if you suffer a failure, that old excuse will be removed from the mix.
 
Yes I too like to get rid of the "rebiuld oil" fairly early in the run in phase.
My new engine was retorqued and tappets checked after initiall 10 mins, and had new filter and oil after
first good ride, (about 100 miles).
New oil and filter again at 500 miles. Just been changed again at 2000, with new plugs and tappet check.
I agree, ask the builder. he will probably say.. 'don't be too gentle'.
staticmoves, I hope the 'care package' contains clean jocks, because you will crap youself when it starts
for the first time. hehe.
All the best,
AC.
 
When assembling the engine I filled to crank up with lots of oil but before Iprimed the oil pump I squrted oil down the pust rod holes for the cam plus all moving parts were lubed when assebled, once the pump has been prmed just kicked it over to get the oil to the rockers with the bores dry this helps the rings bed in as well, once oil is up to the rocker it will be ready to start, I did it this way 18 months ago to my Norton and it fired up first kick, once fired up open your oil tank cap and see when the oil returns to the tank it won't take long, my Norton has done over 10,000 miles since the rebuild and do not blow any smoke and uses no oil at all, this is the second major rebuild in 36 years of owership so I must have done somethings right.

Ashley
 
AussieCombat said:
because you will crap youself when it starts
for the first time. hehe.
All the best,
AC.
Click to expand...
Yeah, when mine started first time in 30 some years, I thought, what the heck is that noise? But it didn't take me long to figure it out.

Dave
69S
 
Some good info. I'm looking forward to doing this on mine. What is preferred break-in oil?
 
Oh, no, another oil thread.

What ever you like, but I'm sure there will be opinions.

Dave
69S
 
You can buy run in oil but just buy a cheap brand of oil as you will be changing it at 500 miles, your rings will be bedded in by then, thats all I did.

Ashley
 
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