Commando Top Speed? (2010)

hobot said:

is this still isolastic?

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Nope. Solid mounts.

Ken

Hortons Norton said:

Did I see that thing at the Hell's Backbone Utah Rally? Has it run yet?

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Yep. Tom Kullen talked me into bringing it to the rally for show and tell. That was a fun event.

We ran it at the BUB Bonneville meets in 2006, 2007. and 2009, and all three were disasters. In 2006 we found that our POS Pingle electronic shifter wouldn't shift from first to second at even moderate speed, so we had to start in second gear. On our first run, the chute opened prematurely so we pulled it through the speed trap in second gear. We got that sorted out (tied the chute closed!), and then found out that the Pingle didn't hold the solenoid on long enough to shift the Norton transmission at anything much above 2,000 rpm, so we ran through the traps in second gear again, this time at 108 mph with the engine revving way too high.

For 2007 we added the front bodywork, and used a cable shifter instead of the Pingle. The transmission worked fine, but we still had trouble with the chute coming out early. Then the trailer we used on the salt to move the liner around broke, and we had to lose a day getting it fixed in town. It broke a again as we were trying to get a last run in. Not a good year.

For 2008 we switched from mercury switches for the chute to an expensive solid state tilt sensor. We made several runs, but the engine was running progressively worse, we crashed the liner once, repaired it, then hit a course pylon and trashed the nose. We chased the jetting, thinking it was causing the poor running, but the engine finally gave up, and we discoverd that the Lucas Rita box had died. I think our best run was 115 or so in third gear.

All in all, a kind of discouraging experience. Except for the Rita dying, the 920 engine ran really well, but we just never had a run where we had the chance to use it fully.

We had a lot of fun with the adventure, but I'm not sure where we're going in the future. It takes a team of at least 4 people to run the liner, and it's a real PITA to transport. I'm starting to think I'd like to go back to a more conventional bike that is a lot less hassle to field. When I ran my wideline featherbed 750 we set 4 different class records with just a two man team and no trauma at all. None of the records held up very long, but it was still pretty satisfying. We'll be back on the salt this year with either the liner or something else.

Ken

This thread is put into true perspective when you notice that there are posters claiming that their modified road bikes are faster than Bonneville record holding machines! Seems a shame that the net has meant that these types have free reign to post this nonsense, which kinda seems to devalue serious discussion to some extent.

Not all of the posts have to have a serious technical content and this one in my opinion falls under the description of 'virtual bench-racing'. Many of us are not so young and the saying goes "The older I get, the faster I was" Hobot gets faster by the day, but I'd happily spend time in his company playing banjo and swapping yarns, but I won't be marrying any of his cousins up in them there hills!

Hobot — you can record your Commandos' top speeds with a Sat Nav or a bicycle computer. Failing those, rev counters are often more accurate than speedos and you can calibrate them from a borrowed electronic tacho (or maybe even from a dyno?). You can then calculate your speed from the workshop manual or (if non-standard) by using a formula, such as:

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/gearspeed.html

Thats a great idea daveh................I wonder if it really will do 150mph+..................lol

While a GPS can record a number of parameters, it is not an exact measurement tool, a bicycle speedometer or something similar which counts the number of turns per unit of time is a lot more accruate. My friend used to run with only his GPS (Garmin 60CSx) on his bicycle and knowing it was not accruate for average speeds, he would "fudge" his average by a few Kph, naturally upwards. While his average speeds in conversations and backed up by writing down lies were always higher than mine, I always waited for him on rides.

Never use an elastic to take measurements :!:
Jean

My friend is a HAM radio nut and he has his GPS hooked up to a radio which sends his position, speed, etc which is picked up by relay stations and then sent over the internet, I can track him when the signal makes it, this system is called APRS, anyway, one time I saw his position reported and his speed was given out at 560 Mph, and this is on a bicycle :!: (which proves beyond the shadow of a doubt Hobot's claims of merely 150 Mph on a Commando). I will try to find the screen capture of that high speed "run"

The USFRA World of Speed event will be held in Mid September.
I'm planning on being there and trying my luck at getting my Honda Valkyrie into the 130 MPH Club. I was all set to go last year but a good friend died right at that time and I had to cancel.

Anyone planning on going? I've seen BUB mentioned here before, just not the World of Speed.

It's a pretty cheap way of putting your Hot Rod bikes out there on the salt and getting a Timing Slip . A chance to "Put up or Shut up".

one time I saw his position reported and his speed was given out at 560 Mph

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Maybe some of the Norton speeds posted here came the same way.

I have seen my Garmin 3010 show a speed of over 100MPH on our boat WHILE AT ANCHOR! Some OTHER method of Commando speed determination is what I would recommend!

It should be easy enough to have a chat with your local DMV and ask when they calibrate thier radars, then simply do a couple of drive-bys that afternoon to get thier attention; once you have them chasing you, max it out then cheerfully accept your certified timing slip!

Mark said:

The USFRA World of Speed event will be held in Mid September.
I'm planning on being there and trying my luck at getting my Honda Valkyrie into the 130 MPH Club. I was all set to go last year but a good friend died right at that time and I had to cancel.

Anyone planning on going? I've seen BUB mentioned here before, just not the World of Speed.

It's a pretty cheap way of putting your Hot Rod bikes out there on the salt and getting a Timing Slip . A chance to "Put up or Shut up".

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I highly recommend going to Bonneville at least once, just for the experience. Be warned though. It is addictive.

I've run at the BUB meet (September)several times, and once at the SCTA World Finals (October), but never at Speed Week (August) or World of Speed (September). Speed Week is the celebrity landspeed event, but it's pretty crowded and usually nasty hot. I've heard that World of Speed is pretty good fun. That's the one where they have motorized bar stool racing! I like BUB because it is bikes only. I also like World Finals because it is way less crowded, and the weather is generally pretty nice. It does have a little more risk of being rained out. We might think about doing the World of Speed this year, just to see what it is like. If we run the liner, we pretty much have to run the BUB event, so we can do something about the rediculous 1000-S-PG class record we now hold with AMA at 87 mph! Back in our first year with the liner, we were trying to get our second run on the last day, and the only way BUB would let us run is if we were doing our return run for a record. They wanted to close the event, and were only allowing record runs. Our first run, with the chute out, had been 66 mph or so, but still qualified us to do the return run for a record, because there was no existing record for the class. We got the run, and that's when we found out the Pingle shifter didn't work, so we ran through the traps in second gear at 108, which gave us a two-way average of 87.078 mph. We didn't really want that sort of record in the books, but it was the only way we could get them to let us run. We thought it would be pretty easy to go back the next year and bump it up to at least 175 mph, but fate wasn't so nice to us. It's kind of embarassing to admit to the record, and trying to raise it is my only real motivation to run the liner again. We're still deciding whether to do that.

Ken

Jean — OK, I'll go along with that. A bicycle computer, then.

Many years ago, the Irish police once helped me to calibrate my speedo and tacho. I had wondered if indicated revs tallied with the speed as per my calculations from the gearing, compared with indicated speed. I was told that I was doing exactly 70 mph through the radar trap and I had noticed, before I was stopped, that the speedo and tacho needles were bang on the marks. They were good enough to let me away with it on that occasion. :wink:

Past Peel between 700-2000 ft was good for 130-35, slightly down hill with helmet on clocks took a while to show 137, how ever ya take that reporting. But it was enough to keep up with any one out here, just not accelerate as fast some so I had to go a bit faster than them to catch up before next set of twisters then the advantage was all Ms Peel's. New Peel if holds together should be 160 capable.

Can she reach that on the tacks available or would I ever do it in public places, not so sure. I'm into road racing and off road playing where just straight line sprints to top speed is rather rare and small part of Peel thrills but she had spunk enough to out leap moderns haeding into and out of turns when less than 1/10 mile between the leans. it did take 6500-7500 rpm in 2nd on almost 22T ratio to dice with the then current moderns or I'd be left behind like my other Combat and SV650. I don't think I'll ever take the chances I did back then testing/proving the rod links wonder so part the reason for extra power is not to have to hold such high speeds into blinds to be competitive on other side of them into the relaxing opens.

I remind thee that Mr. Carbon quips are mere babbles to what I got up close and in face during Peel's and me testing phases for a few seasons of wonder. I expect the disbelief as no other cycle set up like Peel so another hobby goal is to surprise rest of the world much as I can someday.

Any bike with a top speed of only 135mph is going to get eaten alive by any Jap sports bike with 150mph top end, and far superior handling and braking to an old late 60s Brit twin. But to run to 135mph consistently is going to need around about 70bhp at the rear wheel, which is comparable to real world numbers on Norton race bikes, so very impressive from a road machine with less than 1 bar boost pressure!

Carbonfibre said:

Any bike with a top speed of only 135mph is going to get eaten alive by any Jap sports bike with 150mph top end, and far superior handling and braking to an old late 60s Brit twin. But to run to 135mph consistently is going to need around about 70bhp at the rear wheel, which is comparable to real world numbers on Norton race bikes, so very impressive from a road machine with less than 1 bar boost pressure!

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You may as well save your keyboard - You're "Preaching to the Choir".

We all know what these bikes will "really" do, what mods will work - what wont. If someone truly thinks that they can re-invent the wheel or build a better mouse trap, More power to them! Maybe they will come up with something that no one else has thought of yet.

It's their bike, their time and their money. No skin off of either of our noses whatever they decide to do with it. I personally believe that no matter what you do to the crank or the motor mounts, a Norton is NEVER going to eat a R1.

But...... It doesn't hurt to dream.

Mark said:

Carbonfibre said:

Any bike with a top speed of only 135mph is going to get eaten alive by any Jap sports bike with 150mph top end, and far superior handling and braking to an old late 60s Brit twin. But to run to 135mph consistently is going to need around about 70bhp at the rear wheel, which is comparable to real world numbers on Norton race bikes, so very impressive from a road machine with less than 1 bar boost pressure!

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You may as well save your keyboard - You're "Preaching to the Choir".

We all know what these bikes will "really" do, what mods will work - what wont. If someone truly thinks that they can re-invent the wheel or build a better mouse trap, More power to them! Maybe they will come up with something that no one else has thought of yet.

It's their bike, their time and their money. No skin off of either of our noses whatever they decide to do with it. I personally believe that no matter what you do to the crank or the motor mounts, a Norton is NEVER going to eat a R1.

But...... It doesn't hurt to dream.

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+1
but Ill add this, The ol' Norton won't eat an R1 but it looks SO much bettter who really cares?
I'll take style over substance any day of the week in this case and like Mark said,
Whats wrong with a little dreaming?
Cheers
david lee

Hey Mark, I may be making my way to the salt flats this summer. I spent a couple of years at the Bub event with my brother, He was racing Buells until they had a mecanical failure on the bike that caused him to go down in the timed mile at over 180+ mph. He has spent the last couple of years going through 5 different surgeries to get his arm and hand back in shape. Knowing the little I have learned about Bonneville I can say for certain speed is not that easy to get in a place where the rear tire never has complete traction. Also the thin dry air is also a factor, It's fun when the guy's in the "run what ya brung" class get on their Busa's and think they are going to go 200 and find they have a hard time doing 160. Although there were a couple of turbo Busa's that reportedly had 550 h.p. ????? But the fastest my brother ever did was 217.945 and that was on Nitro and 240 h.p. To just go another 20 or 30 mph would take a whole lot more h.p. I would think to go 160 on a Norton would mean it really no longer is a Norton, LOL. :wink:



Sorry for posting these pics again, I know some of you have already seen them. But I'm kinda proud of my little brother, He still holds 5 records.

Any bike with a top speed of only 135mph is going to get eaten alive by any Jap sports bike with 150mph top end, and far superior handling and braking to an old late 60s Brit twin. But to run to 135mph consistently is going to need around about 70bhp at the rear wheel, which is comparable to real world numbers on Norton race bikes, so very impressive from a road machine with less than 1 bar boost pressure!

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Duh yeah dude, but 600's didn't have but 90 or so hp half dozen years ago. Ms Peel bottom was race bike built with 2S cam but top end was 28 mm head just for break in - while CHO head lost with M.A.P. shop. I'd put on Miki carb just for simple same mix to jugs for break in. Peel was in same league as any decent road Commando mid 120's top and straining to get there, Until exhaust opened up then she changed my view of torque over horse power for the turning play I and Peel loved most. Peel could pretty much hold her own up to 90, then horse power advantage of longer acceleration dominated after 100 mph or so in opens. Prue luck out power plant but w/o the stable chassis even that would of just got me in fish flop trouble playing real life and death squid games. I would like to try the combo again or someone else to see if it also excites them as much as it did me. I'd guessimate over 70 hp going by how much faster Peel was than my '00 SV and how close a match to '04 600's.
Peel was not as strong as my P!! which I'd guess over 80 hp/9000.

I just got Drouin 850 user report of finally trying it out in chicanes and told there may be something to the complaints about impeller gyro delaying or resisting lean changes. This makes me pensive as hell but may work out well in Peel's non leaning phase 5 type turns I explored on THE Gravel. I know whats it like on upright dragster, I know what its like on a leaned corner demon, I don't yet know what its like on an upright dragster in corners. Drouin rider said impeller not noticed at all in straights but for the whine and lifting front.

http://atlanticgreen.com/images/earlypg2.bmp





New sportsbikes with traction and wheelie control have me scratching at straws on Ms Peel project to not lose much or any ground after the turning sections.
I'm betting Peel can hit 160 below 2000 ft on mostly level tarmac with fairing.
Texas Mile is one place to get Peel a time slip to show off or eat unseasoned : )

Horton,
That's an old school Buell, Very Cool - Thanks for posting the pics. I followed the VR1000 program for quite a while back when they were first getting going. I always hoped for better success for those guys.

I've ridden probably 50 miles on the salt all together but never through the traps or even when the markers were set up. Yep traction is the problem! I know that my Valk can top 130 on the asphalt and that why I said that I was going to try to get over 130 mph. out there in September and get into the USFRA 130 mph. club.
It is totally tougher than one would think.
It's a run what you brung street legal vehicle class. V rated tires and metal valve stems are the only requirements.