Commando Top Speed? (2010)
- Thread starter highdesert
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"Départ lancé" does not mean he started from 0, it means he was at top speed (or near) when he entered the traps, the 1000 meter speed was 202 Kph and the 10,000 meter was 210 Kph. If I am not mistaken, the Monthléry track had an steeply banked oval meant to be taken at top speeds. Going faster takes a LOT of power, doubling the speed takes the cube of power for the same frontal area. Small tweaks will not put a Norton at 150 ever :!:
Jean
Jean
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Ms Peel Combat best set up was 28 mm head/stock valves, single 34 mm carb, 5 lb lighter crank and 2 to one 1.5" headers into long hollow megaphone with big hole in end cap baffle and 21 T sprocket with 2:1 belt drive. She pulled right up to 130 with me sitting bolt up right on naked bike and up to 137 when I put face shield down on clocks to be able to see them clearly d/t wind buffet.I had a few events where the 600-900's would pass me after 1/2 mile catching up from the curvy sections and I'd slowed to 110-120 d/t blind crest over which I'd had tractors, log trucks and school buses just beyond. They would pass me over the crest into blind unknown while I was about poopping in pants at the risks they'd take for such little advantage I'd make up in a few seconds once the curves and leans showed up soon again.
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Best top speed I have achieved on either of my Nortons is an indicated 122mph. This had a Norvil 920 conversion and was a JPN replica, therefore running with a 3/4 fairing, and that was in about 1990.
My present Norton at the end of this year was topping out eventually at an indicated 110 mph, but I am working on this as we speak. As suspected in a previous thread, when I checked last month, my c:r was a lowly 7.9:1. This will be going up to about 9.5:1 to 10:1, and also am fitting Steve Maney 920 barrels and pistons
My present Norton at the end of this year was topping out eventually at an indicated 110 mph, but I am working on this as we speak. As suspected in a previous thread, when I checked last month, my c:r was a lowly 7.9:1. This will be going up to about 9.5:1 to 10:1, and also am fitting Steve Maney 920 barrels and pistons
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I never saw much over 110 on my 850.
When running single 34 it would seem to suck the carb dry on extended wide open runs. Same with my modded Harley which was good for 120.
Present bike can`t seem to go beyond 239KPH with over 105RWHP. I`ve tried several times.
When running single 34 it would seem to suck the carb dry on extended wide open runs. Same with my modded Harley which was good for 120.
Present bike can`t seem to go beyond 239KPH with over 105RWHP. I`ve tried several times.
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Jeandr said:
In english, these are usually called the flying kilometre and flying ten kilometre. ?
I'd agree, a naked Commando would take a LOT of power to do over 150.
As mentioned though, Rollie Free on a Vincent did it.
And Jim Mosher and Fred with that custom chassis nitrous Commando engine with 155.
"Little tweaks "? Don't forget that the JPN Racers were fully faired, with quite a slim narrow little bike when you see them. JPNs quoted that the fairing was worth about another 15 horsepower too - and if the Norton Villiers engine gurus could coax 76 horsepower at the crank out of them, thats starting to add up ?
Folks quote all these top speeds without quoting what gearbox sprocket they have.
19 teeth out of the showroom is never going to do much more than 110 mph - with a standard cam the power drops off over 6500 rpm, so by 7000 you are on a downhill slope with engine power.
The JPN Racers didn't use the standard Commando sprocket/rear brake drum, so could use the much taller gearing available. Very important to note...
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I don't want to call anyone a liar, but 100Mph is really moving on public roads, now think how fast 130+ Mph would be... others on the road may be going at the posted legal limit which is closer to 60. The difference in speed is quite high and the margin for error small. On freeways outside towns, it is quite feasable to go that fast in relative security if there are not too many cars on the road, on two lane blacktop, over hill and dale, not wishing to become a statistic, very unwise and possibly the root of many fairy tales.
I took my 69 S up to an INDICATED 115 Mph in the middle of the night on a well lit road with a small incline for a very short period. It had a 19 tooth countershaft sprocket and it probably would not have gone any faster (at least it got there fast), now I wonder what would have been my real speed?
Jean
I took my 69 S up to an INDICATED 115 Mph in the middle of the night on a well lit road with a small incline for a very short period. It had a 19 tooth countershaft sprocket and it probably would not have gone any faster (at least it got there fast), now I wonder what would have been my real speed?
Jean
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A Cycle World test of an Atlas in March 1963 got a tested mentioned top speed of an average of 119 mph, with a max of 124. This is consistent with either a 21 or 22 tooth sprocket. It only reached 89 mph over the 1/4 mile.
Essentially the same engine as the early Commando Fastback models, although monobloc carbs rather than concentrics. They commented the seat was slippery, and it was hard to hang on for the speed tests. Could be a "magazine report" of speed testing - just quoting the numbers on the press release - but could be the real thing ?
Essentially the same engine as the early Commando Fastback models, although monobloc carbs rather than concentrics. They commented the seat was slippery, and it was hard to hang on for the speed tests. Could be a "magazine report" of speed testing - just quoting the numbers on the press release - but could be the real thing ?
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Jeandr said:
Some of the magazine tests reprinted show indicated and actual or true speed. I don't know how they arrived at actual speed, but assume they had some external speed trap or speed gun.
For a dommy 88SS, chronometric speedo, this gives 110 mph indicated, 103 mph true.
Which is out, a lot. If all chronometrics are this bad, maybe its where all the fast Norton stories come from....
For an 850, an indicated 70 is listed as actually 68.
Will look for more examples.
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Rohan said:
Its maybe worth pointing out that if the Norton Villiers engine gurus were getting that much horsepower in the early 1970s, then 76 hp out of a 750cc is +100 bhp/litre....
Real horsepower, or just marketing speak, or psyching out the opposition. ??
They were a LOT faster than any road Commando though.....
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Yes sir I was in groin tense teeth gritting fear to finally see what top out was - about 2-3 months of working up hotter harsher handling and remembering what happened with un known blow outs or rear de-riming or sudden insane hinged handling I barely recovered in time. Also had the trembling Nina 900's memory fresh in mind pulling near redline in 6th down a Texas private track school w/o a steering damper. I would let go and slap bars, similar to hitting a stone or hole side lip or wind gust, but Peel only jittered forks/frame for 1.5 decreasing oscillation to self center hands off and then be very hard to alter her bee line by hanging off climbing around or even body slamming her. Took multie all I could body slams to knock her over a few degree's each slam to get her leaned enough in time hands off to do fairly sharp turns at 100 mph car tires scrubbing some to do at 60 mph and sport bikes juttering to hold down or keep from flipping up too soon. Once Peel knocked to any lean she just stayed that lean no matter WOT or full cut throttle, no matter shifting at apex or dragging rear or front brake, nothing for pilot to do but enjoy the scenery zoom effects. With hands on to stay on power and follow wild fork road following dolly wheeliing, i'd have to catch breath to lock it down again for vision enough into next blood draining rise of G's.
Anywho I was most pleased that Ms Peel tracked perfect with only mild and slow predicable reactions to road lumps and wind gust or pilot position. Air lift out of saddle while tucked on cresting rises, onset about 120 mph. I was not buffed bad till ~120 so that is my usual threshold not to stay comfy bolt upright like a gentlemen at his stationary desk. Peel would pull me to 130 upright and beyond but delayed increase until tucking head between hands on the tall bars that allowed me to stand bolt up right on rear set and hands on throttle up over the ton no problemo. That is how I dried off summer rain soaking.
Peel seemed limited by mixture flow which I thought was air flow but may well have been fuel flow or both? All's she needed to hit 150+ in this configuration was stick on the Drouin, but just prior to doing that a cold start stuck throttle took her way beyond 11,000 and took her spunk out and the Ducati 1098 hit the market and I realized 130 rwhp or more needed to spank them in opens to 160-70 hehe if they are even brave enough on such unstable beasts to chance it wihen real turns zooming in so big. Drouin ads from the 70's braved 150 mph capable but hey it American tradition that private rigs like bootleggers ain't limited by no stinking race rule book or behind the times fads of race teams : )
I think I'll follow Norton tradition of pumping up down on something to pyshce out people before I start, like Norton mono coup fuel pump swingarm that got the others to do it too, trying to Approach an underpowered Norton winner.
I know how stupid easy a modern can loose its composure by sharp leans on power, its so close to out of control to have fun on them its no longer worth it to me for such little extra thrill vs A Whole Lot of Terror! Also another HUGE benefit of the rump rod and minor helpers, just to commute sane and legal on my girls beginner curvy SV650 [goat getter] I have to be in fit shape and feel exercised by 20 mile work commute. To really press it or Ninja or cafe Harley takes hi state of attention and muscle work that wears me down by 20 miles/18=9 min when 90 mph is base line to work up/dn from. I can be hung over or injured and get on Ms Peel and body is pampered to arrive refreshed in a little over 15 min with 110 mph as base line. That just daily commuting not a full joy ride! Am I an exposed nut case or is rest of the World still in a hard handling shell?
100 cic Shovel head tractor pull cafe' milk shaker.
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Hobot, with all due respect, there is NO WAY a single 34mm Mikuni will flow enough to get anywhere close to the top speed you claim from your Combat.
You are underpowered with that single carb setup. Do your bike a favor if you want acceleration and top end over simplicity, two carbs flow better than one.
You are the only person I have ever met or read that believed otherwise. No offense, but you are wrong on this.
You are underpowered with that single carb setup. Do your bike a favor if you want acceleration and top end over simplicity, two carbs flow better than one.
You are the only person I have ever met or read that believed otherwise. No offense, but you are wrong on this.
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Rohan said:
I watch Top Gear and I know in some countries people know how to drive fast or at least they know enough not to pull out for to pass and stay in the fast lane until they notice their nostrils are clean. In Canada (and in the US) people barely look forwards so expecting them to look what's coming up at twice or three times the legal limit is a fantasy.
Jean
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Hianddry, I could not believe it either when seller was telling me how fast he rode the locally famous Combat, 120+. His dad had small engine shop that was prior a motorcycle shop that sold it off showroom after being the test bike to sell the others. Its kinda scary to me to go the ton on my SV650 and factory Combat but not on Ms Peel as could get there so quick and was so smooth and stable. I spent a few years learning and exploring fast riding but had too many close calls in blinds, like running over crests @ 120 to almost run up a troopers squad car. SV650 performance figures are well established and it a mere girls beginner bike in power and to me handling too compared to a good Combat and not in same league as Peel. This is a top speed discussion not practical daily survival routine. I know a bunch of 600's that may take issue that mere 34 mm being up to the job of spanking them. Also had over a dozen Monster 900 riders hiding Ms Peel from sight with them all squatting down of packed in close arguing over where the turbo charger was hidden! - as I'd already installed the vac/boost gauge. Most of them almost fell over backward when told - not installed yet. This is a public forum my words are being recorded, I don't want to be embarrassed proving up objectively what my Commando is capable of, so wait and see if I'm misleading anyone.
I can configure factory Trixie to past Peel accidental set up, standard head, Miki 34 carb and the 2-1-mega exhaust and put 22 T on or 21T with belt drive.
One strange feature that may count, I was in rush to get rings broken in waiting on CHO head lost for a year+, so just crudely cut out a fiber composite gasket with rough over hang into air flow plus the lip of the 32 mm manifold to small head ports. Hey just for timid break in use, Boy Howdy it sure woke up once 1000 mile run in done and tried to break her to know if reliable or not.
When component by component Peel got re-configured to normal hot rod configuration, CHO head 6 mm valves and dual Amals 32's, matched air passages, she stage by stage dropped to the normal so so performance listed above by majority of owners, barely able to touch 120 and too long to get there to not be scary hanging on and on in sections that allowed it. I have timed my runs too, so Smiths clocks are close enough even if 3 mph off.
Personally I'd like a two barrel carb, one small barrel and one big one.
I can configure factory Trixie to past Peel accidental set up, standard head, Miki 34 carb and the 2-1-mega exhaust and put 22 T on or 21T with belt drive.
One strange feature that may count, I was in rush to get rings broken in waiting on CHO head lost for a year+, so just crudely cut out a fiber composite gasket with rough over hang into air flow plus the lip of the 32 mm manifold to small head ports. Hey just for timid break in use, Boy Howdy it sure woke up once 1000 mile run in done and tried to break her to know if reliable or not.
When component by component Peel got re-configured to normal hot rod configuration, CHO head 6 mm valves and dual Amals 32's, matched air passages, she stage by stage dropped to the normal so so performance listed above by majority of owners, barely able to touch 120 and too long to get there to not be scary hanging on and on in sections that allowed it. I have timed my runs too, so Smiths clocks are close enough even if 3 mph off.
Personally I'd like a two barrel carb, one small barrel and one big one.
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This interesting read on the 'Yellow Submarine" I quote what most strikes me between the eyes as anyone can just buy more power but no capability.
A lot more + photo's in here
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/ ... ro_rac.htm
A lot more + photo's in here
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/ ... ro_rac.htm
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