Commando prices...

Denis J said:

Unfortunately it's real. I am lucky enough to make my living on classic motorcycles. The last 3 years I have tracked a large decline in interest and money coming in on TriBeezNorts. 10 years ago I could afford to buy nice socks... Now my socks are air cooled. My buyers are literally dying (sad to loose friends)
The kids coming in are not at all interested in Brit iron. I am making a good profit on Japanese machines from the late 70's now. Buying British bikes for resale is no longer a guaranteed business. The kick-starter scares most of the folks my age (38) let alone all the stories of unreliability and lack of parts (we all know otherwise, they don't)
My customers selling Brit bikes are calling me weekly frustrated they are loosing money on their "investments"
Example in the car market: A gent I know in the pre-war car market showed me a sharp decline in civilian vehicle values in his sales. He just purchased a flawless '29 Ford truck for 8k that had over 70k in receipts..the grandchildren that were responsible for the estate were not interested in it at all and had no success selling it on ebay or Craigs.
Key ingredients (in my opinion)- Rarity and impact at time of release - If it was a mass produced machine it seems it will eventually stabilize in price.

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Thanks for the insight, that is very interesting.

Declining prices might seem like good news to people who still enjoy riding these things, but there are negative knock on effects. One being parts supply and quality, we currently enjoy a ridiculously good parts supply for these bikes both in terms of supply (you can just about build a new one if you wanted to) and quality. Parts quality (from most suppliers) is now better than ever. This is all made possible because the market is willing to pay, if bike prices crash, the market won’t be willing to pay and suppliers won’t be able to continue as is.

I still believe there is chance of an up turn, as folk get older their interests may broaden. We’ll have to wait n see.

Time always is on the move and so does the Era of Desire when old gits want that bike of their youth. Now the 70s jap bikes are increasing in value and interest because of this. And the technology and abilities of those bikes puts ours in the shade.
I rode out on my 69 Interceptor the other day. Then I rode out on the Norton 74. Big difference I can tell you and both fully restored. So what is it like when you get on a Honda or Kaw? Well even greater difference.
Riding in today's road environment on the old sleds requires more effort and concentration every day. Imagine trying to ride a 30's bike.

FWIW, at various pubs here on IOM during the Manx GP races this past week, there were, of course, a huge variety of bikes in the parking areas. But frankly, there seemed to be much more general interest in Japanese bikes than in Brittbikes. I base this not on any scientific study but on the number of folks that would gather around any particular bike. Generally, more folks gathered around UJMs than they did classic Brittbikes. Other than Vincent Black Shadows which still draw admiring lookers/questions, original Honda 750 fours, Honda 400 fours, Suzuki water buffalos (750 two-stroke), Kawasaki triples, CBX's etc, all seemed to have more lookers/questions/comments than Brittbikes.

Nortons? I don't think anybody even stopped to look at a Commando. There was a '28 Norton that garnered some interest - mostly, I think, for the visible valve gear - and that was at the Norton meet! There was one current Commando there that a few people looked at -more interested, it seemed, in asking questions re problems they had read about. The Norton meet was rather a poor showing compared to a few years ago. I don't think there were more than maybe 10-12 Nortons there and most of them were the Manx variety. There was one Commander but I didn't see anyone expressing any interest in it.

It appeared that the only young people there had been dragged kicking and screaming by their grandparents...or great-grandparents!

Well the good news is I own a Commando because I want to and I like it ! .... wasn’t looking to get rich when I got it ,was looking for the enjoyment of riding and owning one of the great bikes of my yout ......

FWIW, One of the guys at the meet told me he was selling one of his Vincent BS's for only 70k because, "That's all I think I can get for it nowadays..."

Commando prices?
Norton prices?
I own/possess 22 nortons. Some are complete and rideable or close to being rideable. Model 7 was $10k, never registered 7 mile MKIII $2250, rideable 63 atlas $1500, basket 66 atlas $1500, rideable 68 dunstall atlas $1200. all the rest were less than that or about 9 were given to me for free. The main $ value of these bikes is from parts acquired after the bike/frame was acquired.
My $100 matching number MKIII was completed to running condition for $1100 and my $225 combat was very nice and on the road by about $3000.
If they were to all be brought up to completion/restoration, the parts vendors "by far" would be the ones to benefit.
Their value as research vessels and components is their main value to me.

Have an in depth read sometime. Those “magic carpet” CB750’s fell short of the Commando in many ways. Marketing was the big success, along with mostly good reliability. (Gushing head gaskets not withstanding)
The blistering fast-it’ll killua if your not ready for it Kaw 750 was only 1/10 second quicker than Commando in the 1/4 mile.
Lots of romantic folklore & stories.

Craig said:

First I get called a boomer, now I’m an eccentric ! ...... through out ,my family refers to me as “that mean old codger” ..... maybe like being eccentric ! ..... kinder, gentler terminology , thanks

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Here in France in the 70s I was already riding in Norton (dominators then commandos) and for the bikers I was already an eccentric because they were riding in Japanese motorcycles.
For twenty years the same ones envy me a lot now............….

Imagine trying to ride one of those Kawasaki smokers on a long trip thru the mountains, say a 1000 miles or more.
No thanks!
I do this quite often on the Commando and Vincents, both are nice machines for this.
Same with a restored 750 Honda, it might do the ride but who wants days of tingling vibration coupled with a tiny torque motor ( compared to Norton or Vincent).

There is a Commando tucked in the group below.

Glen

concours said:

Lots of romantic folklore & stories.
View attachment 11982

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The single engine Redline H2 ran 7.7 @ 177 mph decades ago.

I have that magazine, the reality with the first H2 is it was in a mild state of tune at 62 hp, add VM34's, some porting and chambers back in the day and it's hello 90hp on cross ply tyres.
It's all history now though and we all know how it panned out.

You won't be getting one of those 750 smokers for peanuts these days.

worntorn said:

Imagine trying to ride one of those Kawasaki smokers on a long trip thru the mountains, say a 1000 miles or more.
No thanks!

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I found the H2 750 back then fine as a tourer but it tended to use a bit of fuel so stops were more frequent but the handling and comfort were fine.
My 1978 CBX was probably a little more civilised though.
I would take a Beveldrive Ducati for long distance, they eat the miles, the CBX is long gone, the others remain.

concours said:

Those “magic carpet” CB750’s fell short of the Commando in many ways. Marketing was the big success, along with mostly good reliability. (Gushing head gaskets not withstanding)
The blistering fast-it’ll killua if your not ready for it Kaw 750 was only 1/10 second quicker than Commando in the 1/4 mile.
Lots of romantic folklore & stories.

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I remember reading one of the British bike comics in 1968, there was a review of the then about to be released BSA Rocket 3 and on the back page the Honda 750 4 was announced at a considerably lower UK price. And I thought thats it we are fucked.
Not that I would ever have considered buying one . Even with John Cooper probably the best British rider never to win a world championship they were a turkey on the race track. Saw one on Sunday and it looked really cool .Something I had never thought before . However would wager my Commando got more attention when it pulled into the parking lot. But ignored afterwards.

Could be there is a change in perception of what bikes we like to have in our lives.. The BSA A10 is ,for my money, the best looking by far of the Brit Twins ,but as a bike to ride not a patch on a Commando.

A key word that has turned up in this thread is ' investment' I suspect the downturn in bike prices is an indicator of wider economic expectations and may not be too much to do with the perceived merits of particular bikes



My ZZR is nearly 30 years old as well. No one ever comes up and goes through the nice bike routine. And its fast will do over 140mph with ease , but its dead bland and boring to ride . The excitement comes from the fear of losing ones license..

I envy the man with a Vincent BS his financial dilemma,but not the bike. If I had wanted one i would have bought one in 1972 the year I got my Commando.

Kinda like my catalytic converter equipped RZ350.
Chambers & tuning, an easy 10hp, so it’s said.

Yes, Kawa H2,but it’s not "develop sustainably" as they say, 3.17-3.70 gallons US of gasoline for 100 kilometres… …… and bads brakes,very heavy and bad handling (zig zag) as for all Japaneses motorcycles of the 70s-80s

Fanfan26 said:

Yes, Kawa H2,but it’s not "develop sustainably" as they say, 3.17-3.70 gallons US of gasoline for 100 kilometres… …… and Soft brakes,very heavy and smooth handling (zig zag) as for all Japaneses motorcycles of the 70s-80s

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FF... the B model for 1974 was a little more civilised, check valves in the engine cases for puddled oil return, oil injection lines to the carburettor bowls, a longer swing arm etc etc... My worst mileage in the city was 48 kms from a full tank to empty, it did have the dual disc front end from near new so could stop with Ferodo pads.
They are like many bikes of the period with shallow swing arm angles, a set of longer rear shocks made a difference to turn in.
Stock they did not rev that high and had good torque, like anything you adapted to the bike.
That H2B over a quarter mile was not that much slower than my 1981 Z1000J with Moriwaki pipe and Pirelli Phantoms.

The myth is always faster than the reality.

" 1975 Cycle World tested the H2 Mach IV's quarter mile at 13.06 seconds 99.55 mph (160.21 km/h), with a 0 to 60 mph time of 4.3 seconds, 0 to 100 mph time of 13.2 seconds, and a top speed of 110 mph (180 km/h).[16]

FanFan you a lucky guy ! ....like Peter Egan my finances forced me to ride Hondas/Kawis for the first few years then a BSA lightning then on and on .... for long Distance my Duc ST3s is best although with better weather protection the Griso would be right up there really a great road bike , but a pig in a parking lot ,haha! .... like I have said before Commando for Sunday enjoyment of empty roads .... saving it for unknown reasons ....

worntorn said:

The myth is always faster than the reality.

" 1975 Cycle World tested the H2 Mach IV's quarter mile at 13.06 seconds 99.55 mph (160.21 km/h), with a 0 to 60 mph time of 4.3 seconds, 0 to 100 mph time of 13.2 seconds, and a top speed of 110 mph (180 km/h).[16]

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That is a H2C, a different beast to the first year model.
The H2 is a 1972 bike, H2A for 1973 (I have two) H2B for 1974 (just the one) and H2C for 1975.
To know the myth you would at least need to know the bikes model wise.

Tony Nicosia set a production-bike quarter-mile record of 11.95 seconds at 115.38 mph at Fremont Dragstrip in California on March 11, 1972 but that has little to do with Commando prices.

Chuck_Wagon said:

I do not think you are going to find too many millennial’s that are interested in owning kick-start old bikes. If it does not have a button on it somewhere to push, they are out. They will stand around and look the horse and buggy over but not once have I heard one say they would like to own one.

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It really depends Chuck. Technically, I am a millennial (barely since I was born Nov. 1979), but I love old and new bikes alike. My first bike as a Hodaka Ace 100, my second bike was an old CB160 converted to a flat track race bike, and my first street bike was a RD400. I have always loved the old bikes, probably because my father used to ride some fun old bikes and we were always in the garage tinkering on them. My dad mostly rode Triumphs, so British bikes hold a tender spot in my heart.

Besides owning the Commando, I also own a Ducati 996, Triumph Bonneville, Yamaha VMax, and a Honda Grom to teach people to ride on. If I could only ride one bike, I don't know that it would be a Commando, but just because i'm not geriatric yet doesn't mean I don't mind using a kick-starter.

Most fun I have ever had with 20hp was ‘78 kawi kx125 .... that one I should’a kept , love the old 2strokes ....