Commando High Speed Stability

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Before Les gets back from holidays and has this whole topic removed and sent to the censorship board for possible removal of all offending forum participators (yes olChris, that includes you. Notice also, hobot is smart enough to stay clear) I'd like to tell you what a first timer Norton sidecar outfit owner can expect. I've got the German version but same same. I was told outfits were a horror to ride. Turning into the chair side is fraught with peril, arms will ache and it will twist and buck. Practise ONLY in a big paddock before venturing onto the road. I don't have a big paddock so threw caution to the wind and blasted off without any instruction. First thing I notice is a terrible tendency to pull in a straight line hard towards the chair. Jesus, they were right!! But then I discover there is a chair hand brake like the one I had in my VW Beetle. How embarrassing!! With the chair brake released she's tracking fine but the first corner is definitely different! Turning into the chair is definitely the more difficult and one has to size up the corner before entering it. Changing your line during the corner is very difficult, except for running wildly out of control towards the on coming traffic if you didn't think about it before entry and apply the right pressure on the handle bars. Powering through the corner with throttle is a good technique and certainly helps. Honestly, it took me all of five minutes to get a handle on it. Practise in a paddock is crap! But don't try and steer it like a motorbike or you will end up in a paddock, or hospital or a box!

The bastard with Staintune exhaust system fitted accelerates almost like a Commando! It's an absolute hoot!! And sitting at the lights talking to ya gal, with feet still on the foot pegs is quite a novelty. Don't park it down hill nose in too close to a car in front, there is no reverse gear. Unless of course your gal is built like [DELETED] (no deleting thanks Les)[UNLUCKY]. My gal (thankfully) certainly isn't.

It's a whole new extension of motorcycling I've never experienced before. Just how long has this fun been going on???

Phil
 
It's a whole new extension of motorcycling I've never experienced before. Just how long has this fun been going on???

Phil[/quote]

Phil what have you been putting in your cigarettes ?
Commando High Speed Stability
 
auldblue said:
It's a whole new extension of motorcycling I've never experienced before. Just how long has this fun been going on???

Phil
Click to expand...

Phil what have you been putting in your cigarettes ?
Commando High Speed Stability
[/quote]

You're just trying to "bait" me.
With powerpac breathing cigarette smoke down my neck, I'm chicken to reply!

Something very fishy is going on.
Phil
 
Re commando handling

Probably the best place for high speed handling tests is on the track. Where you can try out different set ups on your bike.

I absolutely do not support high speed riding on the public highway as it is a danger to other road users only last week I spoke to a 68 year old who lost his liecence and had to resit his test caught doing 128 mph.

These so called ton up boys will have us all off the road in no time, with their devil may care speedster riding and fast overtaking , where I might add will it end.

I say keep it on the track and keep our roads safe.

A careful motorcyclist!
 
auldblue said:
Re commando handling

Probably the best place for high speed handling tests is on the track. Where you can try out different set ups on your bike.

I absolutely do not support high speed riding on the public highway as it is a danger to other road users only last week I spoke to a 68 year old who lost his liecence and had to resit his test caught doing 128 mph.

These so called ton up boys will have us all off the road in no time, with their devil may care speedster riding and fast overtaking , where I might add will it end.

I say keep it on the track and keep our roads safe.

A careful motorcyclist!
Click to expand...

Indeed, and they need to keep their posts on "the track" too, preferably not displayed in public!
I just had a thought, prior to swapping Roadster rear 19" to my Fastback 18", I will be swapping the 4.10 Fastback front to its replacement 3.60 TT100. Well, let's not tell my little friend, but the 3.60 TT100 I've bought was intended for the Roadster, never mind, I'll buy one for it next week. That will be three tyres here in the office as I just bought one for the outfit as well. Anyway, this will effectively tilt the bike forward, just a little bit. Same thing being achieved when the 19 incher goes on the back. acetrol talked of these subtle changes having effects on handling and stability. So, the combined effect of a 4.10 19" rear with 3.60" 19" front, will notably change the "tail dragger" look that Time Warp noticed (well, said he did) in my Fastback photos. There will be some effect on handling I'm sure. What about stability? That's what I am very keen to find out.

Life here at "Norton Mittagong" is very messy at the moment with cement dust and debris flying everywhere. They jack hammered the entire bathroom floor up and there is crap (no pun intended) all over the house, floor and bikes out back (forgot their covers one day). Also, I've been tracking an intermittent electrical fault on the Beemer (definitely not fuel pete) and have isolated it to the kill switch. Apparently a weak point in BMW electric circuitry. I never use the stupid thing on any bike! So I'll have that sorted quickly.

So when the decks are clear, I'll be out on the magic mile testing variations of wheel and tyre size at frighteningly fast speeds.. This is dangerous work and DEFINITELY not for sissies (Ton Up Boys take note)!

Phil
 
I try not to live in the past. What we got away with in the 50s and 60s on public roads we cannot do today. I still have the urge to get a good fast British bike and fang it around our town. The 'speed kills' idiocy our police get into really shits me. That said, the reality is that in about 1990 some of us realised that the word 'safe' means minimising risks to a tolerable level - i.e. we have a duty of care. When I was about 27 years of age I was still riding on public roads and I realised the odds were against me, so I went racing. Back in those days my mates and I would top 100 MPH every time we went for a ride around the suburbs of Melbourne. Personally I see not much wrong with that if the rider is extremely competent, however many guys got killed doing it. As soon as you start road racing on circuits you find out how much you don't know about riding motorcycles. In about 1982 I sold my old short stroke 500cc Triton back to the friend who had built in in the 50s. He let a young guy from the next town race it a few times. The kid was a member of a bikie gang and usually rode a fairly decent Harley Sportster. He lined up at the start in his first race with the Triumph and looked around at the grey bearded old idiots alongside of him and thought he was going to do very well. Got the shock of his life - they made him look very stupid. It is a whole new world and loads of expensive fun.
 
acotrel said:
I try not to live in the past. What we got away with in the 50s and 60s on public roads we cannot do today. I still have the urge to get a good fast British bike and fang it around our town. The 'speed kills' idiocy our police get into really shits me. That said, the reality is that in about 1990 some of us realised that the word 'safe' means minimising risks to a tolerable level - i.e. we have a duty of care. When I was about 27 years of age I was still riding on public roads and I realised the odds were against me, so I went racing. Back in those days my mates and I would top 100 MPH every time we went for a ride around the suburbs of Melbourne. Personally I see not much wrong with that if the rider is extremely competent, however many guys got killed doing it. As soon as you start road racing on circuits you find out how much you don't know about riding motorcycles. In about 1982 I sold my old short stroke 500cc Triton back to the friend who had built in in the 50s. He let a young guy from the next town race it a few times. The kid was a member of a bikie gang and usually rode a fairly decent Harley Sportster. He lined up at the start in his first race with the Triumph and looked around at the grey bearded old idiots alongside of him and thought he was going to do very well. Got the shock of his life - they made him look very stupid. It is a whole new world and loads of expensive fun.
Click to expand...

Five laps around a track (Eastern Creek) and I was bored fartless. Same corner, same straight, same corner. 210 kph down the main. But it was a track ride day (think I did about five) so not proper racing. But yes, you learnt how fast you WERENT!!

Phil
 
Before ya change anything in your crap filled atmosphere please do some hands off tests from reasonable sane speed down to point ya better grab bars. Do note that the slight slapping of front isolastic gap from both rear patch levering through rear iso and fork-tire wiggles and how hard to ride a locked front brake on untamed isolastics mean putting more mass on front taking if off rear may uspet you more than other wise. I'm interested in feed back sense of seasoned hooligans seriously working on getting adequate kix now and then phil.

I've still a bit hollow sense in gut after the knee tremble adrenaline hits have about wore off now ~ 20 min after a test ride on a 400+cc quad set up both to not begin to engage auto clutch till the 2smoke rpm in exhaust chamber power band and nasty hopped up for those kids that want to get ahead of their crazy friends. Freaking thing just flat goes out of control nailing in on any surface especially THE Marbles&Arrowheads, crap crap crap I can't sleep now till dropping cash on it to have my way with it. The kids rip up the woods after midnight when no sane traffic out so may join them but already sense Ms Peel is better on the Gravel than they are and for sure getting over 60-70 on THE Nitty Gritty. Perfect tool to break down pasture carpet paths for Peel to play in the ruts plus break trails through brush and knock off hi centering peaks. Practice flight times per speed and launch angle while re-freshing skills of standing on pegs full upright screaming while straight steering into turns by effortless rear powering. Next time out will have armor on and maybe duct tape major joints. Once Peel done boy howdy will she freak out more than the spotlighted deer after dark.

Oh yeah the encounter occurred at tool/die shop doing more details on Ms Peel features and place the photo's of Ms Peel crashed, hung up or about hidden in brush raw woods and ravine extremes I really didn't think Peel of me would make it in functional conditon to even get home but later that day allowed confidence to work up phase Three and phase Four handling with some PHasze FIVE on THE Gravel return where everything is way over powered for traction.

Commando High Speed Stability
 
Yeah but in right place that can work out like the Barrel of Death carnival show taken on the road calling it Canyon Wall riding which is actually possible if going at it fast enough and not too much big breaks in the surface to jump past.
 
Ref; Commando tyre pressures

Steve
When attempting feats of unbelievable stupidity there is always somebody there to see you fail or to point out how they would have done it better.

The last time we tried out tyre pressures , Kerinorton said he would turn up with a few commando men and put some air in our tyres , here's what happened next. Derek you've just taken it too far!!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tLsZWTUDEE4

That's going commando for you!!!
 
hobot said:
Before ya change anything in your crap filled atmosphere please do some hands off tests from reasonable sane speed down to point ya better grab bars. Do note that the slight slapping of front isolastic gap from both rear patch levering through rear iso and fork-tire wiggles and how hard to ride a locked front brake on untamed isolastics mean putting more mass on front taking if off rear may uspet you more than other wise. I'm interested in feed back sense of seasoned hooligans seriously working on getting adequate kix now and then phil.

I've still a bit hollow sense in gut after the knee tremble adrenaline hits have about wore off now ~ 20 min after a test ride on a 400+cc quad set up both to not begin to engage auto clutch till the 2smoke rpm in exhaust chamber power band and nasty hopped up for those kids that want to get ahead of their crazy friends. Freaking thing just flat goes out of control nailing in on any surface especially THE Marbles&Arrowheads, crap crap crap I can't sleep now till dropping cash on it to have my way with it. The kids rip up the woods after midnight when no sane traffic out so may join them but already sense Ms Peel is better on the Gravel than they are and for sure getting over 60-70 on THE Nitty Gritty. Perfect tool to break down pasture carpet paths for Peel to play in the ruts plus break trails through brush and knock off hi centering peaks. Practice flight times per speed and launch angle while re-freshing skills of standing on pegs full upright screaming while straight steering into turns by effortless rear powering. Next time out will have armor on and maybe duct tape major joints. Once Peel done boy howdy will she freak out more than the spotlighted deer after dark.

Oh yeah the encounter occurred at tool/die shop doing more details on Ms Peel features and place the photo's of Ms Peel crashed, hung up or about hidden in brush raw woods and ravine extremes I really didn't think Peel of me would make it in functional conditon to even get home but later that day allowed confidence to work up phase Three and phase Four handling with some PHasze FIVE on THE Gravel return where everything is way over powered for traction.

Commando High Speed Stability
Click to expand...

hobot,
Is there anyone else at your home I could speak to? I have been musing over this post all day but can't see the connection to the wheel size discussion. But i will read it again and see if I have missed something in the last 20 times. Maybe my wheel size post was equally as confusing.

phil
 
I did not volunteer for my crazy handling events and have wife and shop/trail owners and a handful of locals and out of state witnesses including my budy Wesley and a rare photo of a few of my hard lesions I didn't win. Best wheel size depends on power loads applied and type of surfaces that test traction. I know how to make a Commando the best handling power planting turning device on two tires which is so unusual I'm a www laughing stock when I tell about it and how simple to do but who;d believe a quack in the woods over decades of attempts. I am most interested in the blaster to practice how Peel handles compared to rest of the stuck on rails world ... except Peel better be faster about everywhere or Peel's project a failure.
 
Ref; high speed handling for evasion.

Steve

Glad peel is still upto wow factor handling , this could come in handy if you visit France !!!

Commando High Speed Stability
 
Re; correct wheel attachment for nortons.

All this talk of tyres and wheel's was getting a bit out my depth so I phoned Norton to ask ,unfortunately all the tech guys were out but I spoke to a bloke called Stewart who said he would give me the benifit of his expertise , I found what he sent me both informative and polite, however even I don't know what it has to do with commandos!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yzrvHfHDOR4

Was mick Grant not wearing that shirt at the T.T
 
hobot said:
I did not volunteer for my crazy handling events and have wife and shop/trail owners and a handful of locals and out of state witnesses including my budy Wesley and a rare photo of a few of my hard lesions I didn't win. Best wheel size depends on power loads applied and type of surfaces that test traction. I know how to make a Commando the best handling power planting turning device on two tires which is so unusual I'm a www laughing stock when I tell about it and how simple to do but who;d believe a quack in the woods over decades of attempts. I am most interested in the blaster to practice how Peel handles compared to rest of the stuck on rails world ... except Peel better be faster about everywhere or Peel's project a failure.
Click to expand...

I see. My prediction for you is:
19" 4.10 Rear, 19" 3.60 Front will be the best possible set up for the road. There was a time not so far back I thought how silly do those skinny tyres on old Brits look? On my last Commando we fitted fatter modern tyres but lost that needle like precision steering Commando's are famous for. Well not lost but deadened.

There is NO useful reason beyond tyre options for fitting an 18" rear wheel. Not that I can think of.
When using peel as a scrambler, I'd suggest heavy knobbies for the bush. Chains for the snow. Spikes for ice. I doubt wheel size for these applications would matter twopence.

Phil
 
Wheel size suggestions for sidecar application when givin er the boot?
 

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