Commando aluminum frame.

I had a Norton 750 + .040 motor that made it to 100 crank horse at 7800 on a Superflow dyno. Unfortunately it was un-ridable as it would not run below 6000 well enough to get up to speed. By the time I got it tuned to the point of being usable I was back down to around 80 horse. Jim

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That's both flabbergasting and flash backing to read JIm. I swear my P!! was in that zone but incredible tractable, one kick starts, 600 idle and school grounds creeping tame but walked flat away from the 2 smoke triples of the day and only the Color club 1%-er Harleys would ride at my illegal go to jail highway rates. There was no wait on tire speed to throttle setting till over 60-65 mph, only good control by the Amals allowed street tire to grip to go or just smoke out or trip out if leaned any. Those 2smoke triples had mid 11 sec 1/4 ET. I was told P!! best time was 10.49 sec. I never timed it but for sure was a sec quicker than those 750 chain saws and I ain't talking about no Water Buffalo. P!! was last raced '70 when pilot dropped it near 150 and retired from two champion years. Pagent's Cycle in Tallahassee Fla build it up on a dare but I've not been able to find/contact a shop by that name to follow up.

Do ya know how cool a totally safety wired engine and bike is. Spider web Art Deco! Like old air craft radials, every head bolt woven to its mate all the way around. Every barrel bolt/nut in twisted crisscrossing wires, axles and brakes and braces. Hurt to cut them to service stuff. I'll learn to reproduce it in Ms Peel.

hobot said:

Got me good Carbon, I don't race nor have done PIkes Peak which is getting paved over this year : (

Will just have to hold a low opinion of me and wait and see why I've such a low opinion of hi tech and material cycles to study for handling but do study the 4 wd drive rally cars lines and moves. Don't know if ground effects helps F1 cars enough in the tights I like to do on ole obsolete tamed isolastic Commando. Studying show downs of elite bikes vs elite cars, bikes all lose because they can't brake as well nor enter turns as fast. Now why is that? I think I know and it don't apply to Peel.

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If you dont actually race, then I wonder why you seem to be involved with spending an awful lot of time and money on tuning an old Noton? For street use it seems to me that fitting modern flat slide carbs, and a modern inductive ignition system, are things that greatly improve the stock bike, without compromising reliability or having a need to deal with drastic failure of major engine parts.

If you dont actually race, then I wonder why you seem to be involved with spending an awful lot of time and money on tuning an old Noton? For street use it seems to me that fitting modern flat slide carbs, and a modern inductive ignition system, are things that greatly improve the stock bike, without compromising reliability or having a need to deal with drastic failure of major engine parts.

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Ugh Carbon, after pre-Peel found so much wrong, years to save up to correct it, after 6 months crashing and learning about hinged horrors, I got SV650 then had its suspension upgraded on race only tires and learned to ride it short of loosing much grip then took corner school, [I was told never to return], so could learn about tarmac loss of traction and what a modern is fully capable of. Then in great depression of wasted time/$$$$ on still un-named obsolete Combat - I finished break in and tired to see if I could break her over 7000 in 2003. Did not break nor could not upset or break traction like the sports bikes.
Going as hard around sharp turns and sweepers as sport bikes was not the dare devil level on Peel, it was pressing rather harder pass that threshold that sent me beyond fear into new orbits I couldn't believe.

Then I needed to find her pecking order by riding with hot shot squids and real racers vacationing here on paired down hot rods. The racers loved it but the Squids would just sneer and roll eyes up when I asked to follow them. Then I found the racers and squids were braking where Peel was hard on it and even if I got left minutes behind a car in twisties they just shot pass into blinds, it took less than a minute to shoot right up their tails and if I took off first it'd be 20-30 miles later entering a town before they caught up in very angery mood.
I'd take many pages to relate the stories of contests and reactions from shoot me dead to screw me silly on the spot with boy friends watching!!!

So the reactions to Peel by sneering hot shots to modern engine builders sorta developed into a hobby of whipping the smirks off faces in short order. I could never find worthy completion to Peel, even w/o entering phase 3, 4 or 5 ways faster funner around. If I exceed Peel go to work rates its was also a solo joy ride. About half the contests I had started by Peel or cargo runs coming up on groups all tucked down and dragging knees and I'd pass em bolt upright jacket flapping, groceries hanging out milk crate, to tempt the hot shot of them into following me. I'd tease with em a bit for the SNorton to soak in then get bored and go on home w/o em, still not in adrenalin shakes, so leaped into creek beds or woods to get some real rush.

Peel's purpose is 1st to please me no end as comfy cargo mule, 2nd to put her obsolete chassis and push rods on skinny tires pass elites on race track days up 160 or so and Norton name back in minds as Un-Approachable. I also seek to have video of running deer down on various surfaces. Then I die but didn't miss out much for as long as it takes to get there.

Picture at max lean max power front is about to skip out and rear about to spin out, then NAIL THE POWER, that is just the beginning of Ms Peel thrills.
Picture this in long boring sweeper, so trip her down to hi side back up but aimed for longest straight path ahead upright on WOT then do it again just in time, for as many times as it takes to facet the curve into series of short straights with just instants of hesitation in thrush. That's phase 4. Phase 3 is too sharp a method for sweepers and Peel ain't got power yet to explore fastest phase 5 over 90 mph or tarmac, just THE Gravel. I truly think linked isolastic Commando is the ultimate configuration, if not the best materials, but even that may have worked out for the best too.

You are a brave man...................having worked at a dealers which sold Commandos when they were new, I would not want to risk riding one in races against modern machines, apparently on the public highway.

Hi
Just wanted to post a reply to Ickrens post, ie dont confuse a hot road bike with a serious race one. I have happily raced for a while now just enjoying being out there on track running as fast as I could. Then I got lucky & got a really nice bit of kit. A John Caffrey framed Seeley MK4. Not long after I was running with my mates old engine with home workshop Dunstal tuning mods. After a season of sorting fettling & getting things right. All the things people ought to do but dont start to get done. This is the area that Hobot is in & I wish I was more like him. In my case the carbs got changed to smoothbores the Boyer micro digital & batteries went in the bin. The clipons & footrests got moved to suit the rider. The exhaust system got slung & a high level system fitted (I rode with it grounding out for half a season! really plays with your head). Finally a q/a twin cable throttle set up is being fitted (every body told me to do this). Moving on but still not full race because its the final setting up, the little things that give you the edge & honestly 50% of riders never get this done (including me)
Even more respect for those that do.
As an example of playing. I brought a Norvil Proddie racer. Mez ported head corrilo rods pw3 cam etc etc. Pattern needles wooden brakes. The straights were nice the rest really poor. I think I have reached the stage where I am no longer happy just to ride round?
Keep up the development the Commando's worth it.
all the best Chris
ps does anyone know Chris Nibbs? he moved to New Zealand & has a home made alloy framed commando & a Vincent

You are a brave man...................having worked at a dealers which sold Commandos when they were new, I would not want to risk riding one in races against modern machines, apparently on the public highway.

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1999 did not even know how to sit on a bike while turning nor what lines to use when I got 1st Combat. 1970-74 my lost-stolen '68 P!! was fastest straight line thing on the road but could not lean so never learned road riding just 'slow' speed burn out upright turns in town and parking lots to get around as commuter cycle. 1999 I crashed 6 x's first 5 days just trying to reach tarmac. On 6th day locals on Harleys invited me to ride 160 mile to drag strip camp out-party. I was so scarred to try to follow them on the Pig Trail. Broke knee off an instant after avatar photo and limped home but riding again 3 wk later. By 6 months I could cross THE Gravel routinely with just once or twice a ride scream to squeal on almost losing it. Then worked up on tarmac to enter hinged handling limits and got very very depressed that any sport bike could out run me in sweepers over 75-80 mph with 45'ish lean angles.

D/t leaks and smoke wear and online hand holding - found major stuff bent or fracturing in pre-Peel. Got SV650 then corner school on 900 Ninja to further depress me I'd gotten a obsolete cripple any decent Harley could out zoom.
Eventually got what became Ms Peel going with simple mods and 3 rod links
and worked up to sport bike speed and corner G's I'd used to beat the snot out pissed off race instructor by a full shift ahead through turns giving him a a dozen bike length leads into them. THE scariest thing for me was to take Peel to this known limit with nothing bad happening, Then NAIL her way beyond what them 'elite's could handle yet never finding a limit to her but power to go into and out of any turn radius even harsher!!!

Then found out the low opinion of world towards obsolete Norton to keep up with sport riders on GRSX's, F6's and Fi's and Ducat's 900's and BMW 1200 RS's and Triumph Tiger/Speed triples etc. Now I'm the one who looks down in disgust on such plastic angry insect looking buzz saw corner cripples I don't even consider them competition but must refer to them as no one else but maybe Bob Patton can relate to how transformed an isolastic Commando becames with a Rump Rod! Only other thing I have I can practice the lines and zings in turns is my hot rod 4wd mudder ice spiked tires 4:11 pumpkin posi traction stiff suspended special shocks chevy pu on THE Gravel. Yet I can out hill climb power hook up traction it on Ms Peel by at least 25% fast top out by crests.

So how many of you have developed a leisure time hobby to pull into a group of elite bikers and shout " HEY! I need a hot shot to compare pecking order with!"
or "Hey can I tag along - till Bored?" to leave the elite's Angry Embarrassed or so pumped up they are dancing in seat and hi-5'iving and hooping and hollering in adrenalized glee. I can tell ya that ain't no way real racers will play as hard and wild insane as young squids on 'crystal meth' after hours of working up into a heat and then encounter a hay seed on quaint but deep roaring Ms Peel. Truly boring not to run right up their tail lights and press them into a crash, so I just wait till I'm alone again to really let Peel's hair out and not kill someone pressing past their bike limits in deadly close quarters two way traffic.

One episode for instance. A vacating racer and track trained girl friend showed up at our village on F1 and F6 paired down modified with total area of tires scrubbed off and knee pucks abraided to trash. This pair was movie star athletic shape and intelligent attractive appearance. I needed top speed verification so discussed with them to make sure they were not stupid squids risking life on mere joy rides. I lead them for 10 miles to 1/2 mile open stretch, holding back not to leave very far behind, having already completely proven Peel cornering superiority just not trusting her Smith's perfect function speedo. I told them I would run up to 135 to they could tell me what their digital speedos showed, knowning factory made those read a few mph faster than actual road speed. I was so disappointed they would not even match my 135 indicated so pulled over soon to ask WTF? They just slumped shyly so we took off into milder turning 15 mile long section I'd lead awhile then let them but in almost tire slipping rates and leans and flings. When we got to a town the gorgeous gal in tight leather stopped next to deflated looking boyfriend and did a stripper pole dance pussy display in my face for almost a minute she was so excited by the play I'd giver her/them. We parted and I returned home at Peels hobot fun rates, then jumped off into creek bed run and climb out to get my climax and shut down.

So Ms Peel rump rod and 2 helpers makes any tarmac antics just fun thrilling no athletics, no scare, no brainer novice level easy going a lot faster and harsher than best moderns, so much so its not really a test of chassis or pilot, but THE Gravel and raw rugged Earth is and always will be. Is everyone else and their hi tech donkey missing out on smooth flying carpet wonders before they die, yep.



BTW big IS tank is vital to grip with knees to stay on over THE Gravel and on phase 4 low side trip outs for the hi side flings spikes of G's you can't believe!

So you have never actually raced a bike at all then, and dont have any way of supporting the rather optimistic performance claims you make on various threads?

Why not go along to a local rolling road dyno, and get an accurate idea of your bikes performance and post the read out on here?

if you are a naturally talented rider, able to easily beat good riders on modern machinery, then why not investigate taking to the track and having a go at classic racing?

Carbonfiber, all's I can say is I did not need to be in a race to feel the difference in acceleration of my 6.9 L Mercedes to my Lexus 400 or the cornering G's of my '65 Coravair with VW or Cadallacs. I too want some objective measures, closest track is 4 hr away, someday. They have Bikes Blues BBQ here each fall and I think they have a rear wheel dyno I'll try to get in line for too, someday. I can't get upset to be challenged, hell that's half the fun of spending on fast machinery, and I went out of my way to get some sport bikers excited to press pecking order both of pilot and the bike. I'm searching fairly regularly to find data logging I can afford or barrow besides track day ET plans. Yet I had a dozen non official illegal race contests with all sorts of bikes and riders here in our cycling meca. I was once so upset that my Commando could not play with the best there is sports bikes and riders with a lot more practice than me, but it was not even a neck and neck contests below 100 mph if most the time spent in setting up, making and exiting turns woohoo, left me flabbergasted at Ms Peel advantage and how harsh the G's she tolerated, nay invited, beyond what I could obtain on Ninja on track or Sv650 on Ozarks courses. I already know rod linked isolatic Commando can plant more power than other bikes, so even if they have 150 hp on tap for sprints then can only put down like 35 when leaned much while in same condition Peel is planting like 45 or more and increasing the whole way around. My SV650 is 70 hp/365 lb
but Peel could easy out run it and top out 20 mph faster. Ninja 900 I tired was ~90 rwhp under 400 lb but it could not put plant the power Peel could in turns and only go about 140ish flat out. It pulled harder than Peel up to speed though.

The Gravel and flat tires taught me everything, then took corner school to see if it applied to tarmac. Its does in spades to find tarmac is child's play secure. My claims are beyond belief because I've experienced a chassis that is beyond current or past tolerance of tire conflicts and transitions of handling behavior.
My goal besides just surviving daily commutes and some joy rides is to change impression of the 'advancements' as superior handling and maybe even sprinting ability on tracks speeds only get to 150 mph, like Barbers or Pikes Peak. I've done the handling tests, its so solved its a non issue to me, just need more power to carry on the advantage to who knows how fast. Anywho if your impression is a neck and neck contest with Peel barely creeping ahead of competition, forget about it, she leaps ahead once any leaning involved.
Not much more to add til I put Peel power performance where my text is : )

"When the flag drops the bullshit stops"

Hobot you are a true Ozark Mountain Daredevil. I had the good fortune to see the Ozark Mountain Daredevils at an open air concert in Vancouver in the 70's. Through the smoke and haze (purple), I witnessed band members turning and twisting and out torquing any hot 10 speed rider of the day on their 6' unicycle (all on stage and amongst towering amps and over cords on a small stage). Sounds like you on your Norton. Maybe he had the rear link? Anywho you Ozark boys got the gusto! Ride hard but stay safe bro.

On man oh man Rip, this Ozark to Ozone life is beyond my wildest imagination. Here turn Ozark Dare Devils on while i take a nip and delve deeper into how frames feel to me.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0de-AfJPG4&feature=related[/video]

Carbonfiber is making me watch my words so I'm shooting form the hip but not from behind. When one is thrown into crashes of various sorts some are so fast you don't know what hit ya, others extend over time enough to try something, anything as nothing to loose, yet in the cases of high sides or a front impact, fighting it out can magnify bad juju over just giving up and bailing. It take extreme fear or insane guts to fight it out at times, I know I'll lose w/o a fight so best chance is berserk action at times.

'05 I'd just gotten a unicycle to learn on when 1st deer death took out Trixie and L knee/ankle/R hip/neck but still practiced inside to half across room but dam knee was too loose to play catch on, so traded it to a Mt biker for something. I've already designed Ricochet Rabbit Ridding Range and Rifle Ranch. Knee perfect in 7 months no issue since even on new fractures like the Great Pyrenees at 12 mph to dam slow to have a chance.

How dare devil just to take a big black snake in wet sac for a Gravel road trip away and forget about it in a mile d/t the scenery to feel sharp L wrist pain and see arm size snake connected to it so reflexly fling arm but fails to dislodge it so both arms and trunk - > out the pan into fire - instant tank slapper into fence/tree's 10 ft ahead going 30+ mph. Ain't no way a front tire can grip on Grit while oscillating like mad, snapped throttle and used butt muscles to weather vane rear towards fence so its thrust helped both brake and steer back to center while front load was relieved so it could just dolly wheel the drift till in line and settled down - I checked diaper but happened too fast to fart.
Its half the answer to my question, can one drift a unicycle, if scared enough.

How dare devil to have log truck run ya off Gravel LH berm into newly graded marbled ditch with head size junk in the bottom 3-4 ft deep, riding its bank
at 30 mph leaned up hill to slow the slide down to doom, to see grader pile 30 yd ahead so no time to think just react with nothing to lose, nail it so rear weather vanned by gravity down hill unloading front so it don't rudder the bike down, just dolly wheel like flat tracker till bike about to low side then grabs a high side by cut throttle so jerks back up while slinging rear up hill as if to pass front nay shoot back onto grade as frame unwrapped in a sling shot.
Then too much momentum to brake/slow to shoot between the grader and a car pincher so stayed on it gritting teeth with rear spun some to be able to ski right between them and see where I was going out of the clouds of dense dust.
This tore the bottom of RH shock out of swing arm for sense of the side loads a Commando can tolerate while its mostly in unicycle mode. HInged handling was easy on tap the rest of the trip out and back on tarmac so I tippy toed.

To really to press bike till rear slips then front slips then leans foul and combine them on my own terms into tank slap onset and recover is just good safety practice to me, scary as can be but not as scary as losing control accidentally.
I've yet to crash in a harsh turn but have about every other way and find the threshold is way lower on regular Cdo or Al space frame rigid modern.

Its fun to drift and looks impressive but thats a load reliving condition, I too have to do it on regular Cdo or Al rigid frame, to quick save a turn or to have a bit of tire wasting fun in easy spots. I was handy enough on the SV650 to do those tight circle slow drifts but it must scrub off speed to get away with it or it jutters bars and threatens a hi side. No way do I think I can do it on regular springy Cdo. On Peel sharp angled drifts don't trip her down or fling her up, just goes out at a tangent sideways. If I flick forks into straight steering other bikes fling a hi side, Peel just grips like crazy and spins into a tighter spiral while taking more power.

At speed in chicanes Peels sudden straight steer as counter steer lets goes twists frame down into rear patch, this grips so much Peel can lift front side ways against the G's pulling it back down. As soon as front grip lets go the frame unwraps, hell it helps lift front, a cat leap comes to mind, but its in the direction you'd want front to go and then land already aimed into next line. In this state Peel is a leaned unicycle.

I call this phase 3 and it should not have any slips or instant SPLAT. Until I see other examples beside ice spiked speedway bikes or MX bikes with knob tires locked in deep Soft Dirt rut on steep banks, I remain un-impressed with the rest of the world's frame geometry technology. BTW you can not slide a unicycle on tarmac, if surpassing unicycle grip, phase 4 energy handling transition hits. That when Ms Peel really excels, alas no examples to show but crash video of others. Peel has revealed 5 phases, why ain't that part of racer school lore? I'm sucking on life hard as I can till I can't, so bring on the corner cripples and critiques and lets have a blast!

http://www.over.co.jp/overnow/?offset=6

hobot said:

I'm searching fairly regularly to find data logging I can afford

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http://news.softpedia.com/news/Dynolici ... 1207.shtml

Cheap and you can use it to listen to music too 8)

Jean

Like it or not whatever chassis you fit on a penny farthing, its simply not going to win the Tour De France (even if Lance Armstrong or Hobot is riding!)................lol

Jean I'm in process of searching up applications using iphone and Itablets as well as dedicated data logging w/o cell phone or interweb/ wifi connections. I don't want to be monitored by app's as it'd be court evidence of breaking the traffic codes.
I expect by time Peel is ready and I've saved up for more, used tablets and apps will be cheap and plentiful. I already have GPS and G-Force unit to display speeds and G's levels, but would like to have rpm, Oxy, CHT, EGT, oil temp/PSI and such recording for digital play back as well as 3D map. Snowboarder and ultralight aircraft shops have units to record runs, but not also heart rate and engine/chassis monitoring.

Carbonfiber, I don't desire to upset you and take you comments to heart, but jeeze louise I learned to drift on steel roller skates then bicycles on sidewalks we'd throw sand on to make interesting. No way can they take the G's in turns linked Ms Peel can going down hill in turns under power. Ozarks is a practice area for world class cyclists I see how they have to do the downhills and in AWE at how they pump the uphills. Seems the down fall in bicycles are their rims just flex or fold up too easy. Power going up hill turns tends to lift bike, power going down turns tends to lower bike lean. You can get away with counter steering uphill fast but boy howdy its dangerous to counter steer going hard down em under power and more so down hill w/o power to help around.

To really hit turns fast can get ya to point there is no way a human can turn forks fastest enough or hard enough in time to prevent shooting right off edge before bike reacts, then must transition to other phased of handling not available to bicycles or elite sports bikes.

IF this seems a sharp turn or impossible photo to you, oh well that's what I'm hoping rest of the world thinks too.

Unfortunately there is no way that anywhere (other than in a chat room!), that an old Brit twin with around 50bhp at the rear wheel, and with questionable handling and brakes, is likely to put it to a good condition 10 yr old 600cc Jap four, with double the power, and far superior handling and braking................

Ok Carbon, that gives me some incentive to re-configure factory Trixie Combat to past Peel's state as main expensive components not being used. Just bolt on stuff and I saved the crude intruding manifold gasket. The hard part is putting on rear linkage and giving up center stand. The 600's I count as contests were often part of a strung out squadron some locals some visitors and commonly with an SV650 or two among them. SV's simply could not keep up after the first open a 1/10 mile or less and could not hardly get to the ton climbing the straighter steeps here. I know because I'd about always leave last to see what they were like before getting close so about 1/20 mile I pass the hard on it straining SV's then 1/4 mile later the slower 600's then weave careful to front of pack before the twisters hit, where the better fun was at. I never had a contest that it wasn't just Peel and one other as rest just would run as aggressive even if bike up to it. We do this a few times over some few hours, use up 30-60 miles of one path then re-group and stick a finger on map and do it some more or just turn around to do it backwards.

Peel had no trouble to stay right with 600's climbing to contest baseline speeds or topping out across 1/2+ mile opens to enter next set of twisters. 120-140 speed common in the opens so had some walk past Peel but most I gained on to stay up front as there was only ever one or two real hot shots in a squadron that were worthy completion and willing to press the issue, stupidly in such heats I freaked out so would not press em from behind nor let Peels hair out much with them close behind, I'd wait till out of sight then leave em all, as was afraid they'd try to follow Peel lines and lose it. Also had talks prior to lone riders then off we'd dance. Rarely would I press a rider I came upon till easy pass in opens and if they were game then we'd play neck and neck no mater the power differences but we did not try to top out in the short opens, mostly catch breath for the next leaning G's to resist.

All I can honestly tell you Ms Peel never delayed any the fastest riders out here but for the 900's above that could accelerate harder and longer than Peel over 90. Also in real world once up to speed in curves and sweepers there is not that great a speed change 25-30 mph and Peel was able to change that much as fast or faster than others up to 90 in 2nd. What ever Peel put out sure seemed more than 50 rwhp. Only similar configuration was by Dave Commeau with best dyno results at a rally a decade+ ago, 49.8 IIRC.

Peel weighed under 360 lb during her prime and did not have to slow up for turns like the others so power was not Peel's main advantage.