Clutch hub wobbles, not sure why

I've been re-assembling the primary drive, installed the snap ring, recessed spacer, shims and clutch onto the main shaft. When I tighten the nut to 70 ft. lb., I spun the inner hub and it caused the basket to wobble back and forth, as if something was bent. I took it back apart, reinspected the circlip, got a new one, back together, same thing. 70 ft. lbs. seems like a lot of push against that little snap ring. Maybe deforming it? Anyone else notice this?

I believe the torque is to be only 40 ft lbs.

the bearing type has something to do with the wobble as well--depending on the bearing tollerance--C3 too loose I think.

Yes, I notice it, others do too. I don't think it matters much, but I'm not an expert on it. Mine wobbled maybe 3mm at the outer edge without any chain or clutch parts in, so I got a new bearing from OB. Make sure it's a press fit or at least very tight fit. That probably cut out maybe 2 mm of wobble. But I still think, when you are going down the road and don't have the clutch pulled in, everything is like one piece, the bearing doesn't matter. It only matters when you pull in the clutch, and I'm not sure it matters that much there anyhow. I look at it kind of like a throw out bearing. Some of the slop is the inner hub on the trans shaft too and when you have power going through everything, it's all tight. I'm still unconvinced if OB sells a C3 or not, but it's the Andover part, just don't get the cheap sealed one unless you have a belt drive.

Just my opinion and you can take that for what it's worth.

Dave
69S

70 ft-lb is a lot of stress to put on that circlip. Others, including OldBritts, recommend 35-40 ft-lb with locktight, or a new circlip each time you loosen the nut.

How much wobble are you talking about? Is it any more than you would get wobbling the output shaft by itself? Things do tighten up a bit once you get the clutch assembled.

Remember, the drive sprocket, primary chain and clutch sprocket go on together.

The two books I have say 70 ft. lbs..

BillT said:

70 ft-lb is a lot of stress to put on that circlip. Others, including OldBritts, recommend 35-40 ft-lb with locktight, or a new circlip each time you loosen the nut.

How much wobble are you talking about? Is it any more than you would get wobbling the output shaft by itself? Things do tighten up a bit once you get the clutch assembled.

Remember, the drive sprocket, primary chain and clutch sprocket go on together.

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There isn't a loose wobble, but rather the clutch basket will move as iff it's cocked sideways on the bore, bearing feals great, no noise, no preceivable loosness. I'll go have a look at OB again..

They all say 70 ft/lbs, but don't do it. 40 is plenty and blue locktite. Look at that circlip and buy 5 when you get one.

Dave
69S

DogT said:

They all say 70 ft/lbs, but don't do it. 40 is plenty and blue locktite. Look at that circlip and buy 5 when you get one.

Dave
69S

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I bought two today. Any more torque tank traps to be aware of? :shock:

After dealing with the wobble issue on multiple Commandos I agree with the blue loctite and 40 pounds torque.

All you are doing with the torque is making sure it is dead flush and wont come undone, no reason to overdo it.

That damn circlip is a stupid design, Heinz Kegler took my hub and welded on a big washer, eliminating the clip.
He said now I can tighten the hell out of it if I want without worrying about breaking the circlip.
Having said that, Heinz used about 50 pounds PSI pressure in my air powered impact wrench to tighten the nut.
And that was just for a about two seconds. This drew it in solid and "almost" all wobble is gone, cannot get it all.

The clutch hub should be a tight interference fit into the bearing and also onto the shaft. If not then replace the hub.
The whole basket will still have play or wobble do to the ball bearing.

Guido said:

The whole basket will still have play or wobble do (due?) to the ball bearing.

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And also due to the fit of the inner hub on the shaft which is not completely tight. There's always play there unless Heinz has welded the hub to the shaft.

I reduced the wobble on mine by about two thirds with the new bearing.

Dave
69S

1up3down said:

After dealing with the wobble issue on multiple Commandos I agree with the blue loctite and 40 pounds torque.

All you are doing with the torque is making sure it is dead flush and wont come undone, no reason to overdo it.

That damn circlip is a stupid design, Heinz Kegler took my hub and welded on a big washer, eliminating the clip.
He said now I can tighten the hell out of it if I want without worrying about breaking the circlip.
Having said that, Heinz used about 50 pounds PSI pressure in my air powered impact wrench to tighten the nut.
And that was just for a about two seconds. This drew it in solid and "almost" all wobble is gone, cannot get it all.

Click to expand...

I can't imagine how the (agreeably piss poor) design of the circlip/counterbored spacer can be changed and still allow dismantling, shaft must slip out of the sleave gear. Weld a big washer onto the hub? Can't fathom it... help me understand. I was thinking a more robust valve spring keeper like design to replace the circlip/spacer.

I've heard stories that the Commando clutch was originally designed for a forklift or something industrial like that. I think it's an improvement over the clutch used on previous models, especially the move to a three-row primary chain.

On my P11, the original clutch plate tabs were hammered to about half their original width. The design of these earlier clutches had the cush rubbers inside the hub, and when they disintegrated, the back-and-forth action destroyed the tabs. Also, the 3 springs on the pressure plate need to be carefully adjusted so the pressure plate releases and engages evenly.

The Commando clutch has dozens of splines engaging the steel driven plates and bronze friction plates, rather than the 5 tabs on earlier models. Also, the plate spring releases evenly, with no fiddling of tension. Those bronze plates last a long time, too.

The gearbox is the same basic unit used on AMC bikes since the mid-50s, with only minor changes along the way. If Norton had more say in their decision-making and more money for product development, things may have been different. As it is, I think they did a pretty good job, given the environment in which they were working.