Clutch Cleaned, Now bike won't kick?

I was having issues shifting and the bike is jumping out of 1st gear into a false neutral. Although I'm sure this is a gearbox issue, I decided to first clean the clutch plates. I've been insistent on doing my own work on the bike so I followed the workshop manual, cleaned them and re-installed.

I feel confident that I've followed each step but obviously I missed something. Now, when I go to kick the bike over, I get nothing. It's as if the clutch is engaged, but it's not. SOMETIMES, it grabs a little but not enough to start the bike.

Where did I go wrong here? Any thoughts are much appreciated!

Thanks!
Brian

Go through all the clutch adjustment procedures from scratch, maybe even starting from the rear chain and the primary chain. It's in the book, if you don't have it, I can get you a copy or lead you there. You really need to be anal about setting it up or it won't work right. Do you have a Riders Handbook or the Workshop Manual?

Dave
69S

DogT said:

Go through all the clutch adjustment procedures from scratch, maybe even starting from the rear chain and the primary chain. It's in the book, if you don't have it, I can get you a copy or lead you there. You really need to be anal about setting it up or it won't work right. Do you have a Riders Handbook or the Workshop Manual?

Dave
69S

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Hey Dave, I have a workshop manual but not a riders handbook- I felt good about following the directions and the clutch feels firm as it should. I'll open it back up and go at it again.

A few questions:

-Is there one specific thing that you can think of that would cause this issue?

-When re-installing the compression spring with the compression tool, is there a specific amount of tension that's required on that compression spring or is it just whenever the tool comes off, then it's tight?

Oh, by the way, it's a 70 commando.

Many Thanks!

If it's a 70, it may actually be a 69 production date, not an issue,however, don't go for one item to fix things, there are about 3-4 things in the clutch that need to all work in concert. One item may save you, but it all needs to function correctly. Go here and you can get the 69-70 handbook, I think it's good enough to print out. http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg28 ... 0Handbook/ Page 27 is the clutch.

You just need to go through all the procedures, because they all interact. I find the adjustment on the screw that adjusts the push rod to be much less than they recommend in the books, like maybe 1/8 to 1/3 turn, just enough to have some play, but not enough to make things slip. You may have to play with it. The clearance between the clutch pack and the retaining spring is critical also to have a nicely functioning clutch, too much play and you have a very hard clutch, you need to get it with the least amount of play, OB will sell you a set of spacers and you can send the ones you don't need back. It makes the clutch very nice. Mine is OK, but I need to get the spacers to make it better. The operating lever in the gearbox is another thing that can be really easily set up wrong. Make sure you know it's right. If your clutch feels spongy and strange, check out the op lever. A bad cable can play havoc too.

Dave
69S

If you pulled out the clutch rod much then might have dropped the ball on RH at the cable attach mechanism. Possible but not likely is main shaft RH retaining nut backed off so clutch can't press plates together well. Worn 1st gear thin bush can also jump to fake N but creeps up on ya getting worse and worse with wear.

hobot said:

If you pulled out the clutch rod much then might have dropped the ball on RH at the cable attach mechanism. Possible but not likely is main shaft RH retaining nut backed off so clutch can't press plates together well. Worn 1st gear thin bush can also jump to fake N but creeps up on ya getting worse and worse with wear.

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Thank you both for the input.

Sorry, but what is the ball on the RH at the cable attach mechanism? Do you mean the ball on the clutch cable? The clutch pulls fine, it's just that the bike won't kick over.

Thanks!

Bike won't kick over as in locked up or failure to engage primary to turn it.
If the 2nd condition then open the inspection fill cap and see what I'm talking about. Cable pulls on a V shape lever that pivots on a ball bearing which can fall out of the V, if so then spring can't push plates together well d/t the extra slack. IIRC I was able to get ball back in its notch thru the cap, just barely.
I've also had mainshaft RH nut get loose and do similar, nil clutch engagement.

hobot said:

Bike won't kick over as in locked up or failure to engage primary to turn it.
If the 2nd condition then open the inspection fill cap and see what I'm talking about. Cable pulls on a V shape lever that pivots on a ball bearing which can fall out of the V, if so then spring can't push plates together well d/t the extra slack. IIRC I was able to get ball back in its notch thru the cap, just barely.
I've also had mainshaft RH nut get loose and do similar, nil clutch engagement.

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I'm getting great clutch tension when I squeeze the clutch. It pulls the cable well and firm so it feels correct. Here's the issue -When I go to kickstart the bike it's just a free kick, no engagement on the primary side. Nothing. It's like I"m kickin air. Or like as if I tried kicking the bike over with the clutch lever pulled when it's really not.... nothing.

You have some freeplay in the clutch lever, right ? or maybe you have left out a friction plate, may be the inner plate that is held in place by a couple of tiny pins has come adrift, that could cause it.

One solid possibility is a bad pawl spring on the kickstart stub--which may be preventing the pawl from engaging the interior lands or slots in the layshaft first gear--or perhaps the pawl itself is completely worn away. If the clutch checks out you may want to pull both gearbox covers and take a look--this would also be an opportunity to shim the kickstart knuckle inward to locate it positively within the layshaft first gear--best of luck


Tim Kraakevik
kraakevik@voyager.net
'72 Combat, '74 RH10 850

The clutch pulls fine. This issue is only with the kickstart. Not a clutch lever issue. After re-installing the clutch, the kick lever went dead, like kicking air.

It should somehow be associated with how I reassembled the clutch. The Kick Pawl was replaced a year ago and before I took apart the clutch I had no issues with the kick lever.

Supposing it's on the clutch side. Has anyone ever experienced this? Is there a simple fix that I missed?

many thanks for all the input.

PalmerNorton said:

The clutch pulls fine. This issue is only with the kickstart. Not a clutch lever issue. After re-installing the clutch, the kick lever went dead, like kicking air.

It should somehow be associated with how I reassembled the clutch. The Kick Pawl was replaced a year ago and before I took apart the clutch I had no issues with the kick lever.

Supposing it's on the clutch side. Has anyone ever experienced this? Is there a simple fix that I missed?

many thanks for all the input.

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1. With cover off you can watch the diaphragm spring move as you pull in the clutch lever.
2. With bike in 1st gear, bike will not roll.
3. With clutch lever pulled, bike will roll when in gear.

Report back.

PalmerNorton said:

It should somehow be associated with how I reassembled the clutch. The Kick Pawl was replaced a year ago and before I took apart the clutch I had no issues with the kick lever.

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With the bike resting on its wheels, select 1st gear, pull in the clutch lever and then operate the kickstarter (ignition off, obviously). If the bike moves forward every time the kickstarter is operated then the kickstart pawl mechanism isn't slipping.

L.A.B. said:

PalmerNorton said:

It should somehow be associated with how I reassembled the clutch. The Kick Pawl was replaced a year ago and before I took apart the clutch I had no issues with the kick lever.

Click to expand...

With the bike resting on its wheels, select 1st gear, pull in the clutch lever and then operate the kickstarter (ignition off, obviously). If the bike moves forward every time the kickstarter is operated then the kickstart pawl mechanism isn't slipping.

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The bike rolls forward in neutral without the clutch engaged. It also moves forward with the clutch engaged in first but naturally stops when in first without the clutch engaged. So, I'm pretty sure it's just something I did wrong on the clutch side when re-assembling.

PalmerNorton said:

The bike rolls forward in neutral without the clutch engaged. It also moves forward with the clutch engaged in first but naturally stops when in first without the clutch engaged. So, I'm pretty sure it's just something I did wrong on the clutch side when re-assembling.

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Can we be clear about what you mean by "engaged" (and "disengaged")?

The clutch is said to be engaged when the lever is let out-so the drive from the crankshaft is (or at least should be) engaged with the gearbox.

Disengaged is lever pulled in, the engine drive should then be disengaged from the gearbox by the clutch.

It also moves forward with the clutch engaged in first but naturally stops when in first without the clutch engaged. So, I'm pretty sure it's just something I did wrong on the clutch side when re-assembling.

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I think we have some semantics at work here. With the clutch lever pulled in and with low gear selected the bike rolls freely. With the clutch lever released and low gear selected the bike will not roll. Correct?

This is normal clutch action and the problem is not in the clutch. You have another kickstart pawl issue. If you replaced the pawl, did you replace the spring and plunger? The plunger can break up and the spring will then not always push the pawl out properly. If these are in good shape, and the pawl is still good, then you need to take a good look at the teeth inside the layshaft first gear. This is what the kickstart pawl drives. If these inner teeth are damaged, the pawl will not grab the gear.

I'm getting great clutch tension when I squeeze the clutch. It pulls the cable well and firm so it feels correct. Here's the issue -When I go to kickstart the bike it's just a free kick, no engagement on the primary side. Nothing. It's like I"m kickin air. Or like as if I tried kicking the bike over with the clutch lever pulled when it's really not.... nothing.

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Ok that's a clear air description, which makes me still think of the side opposite clutch as in maybe the kicker ratchet Part of my Nortoneering, is facing doing repair-maintenance chores multiple times till something falls out or falls in place to educate me more. We await your success story and what you found, if not fixing it by accident - so not learning at thing like me too often.

L.A.B. said:

PalmerNorton said:

The bike rolls forward in neutral without the clutch engaged. It also moves forward with the clutch engaged in first but naturally stops when in first without the clutch engaged. So, I'm pretty sure it's just something I did wrong on the clutch side when re-assembling.

Click to expand...

Can we be clear about what you mean by "engaged" (and "disengaged")?

The clutch is said to be engaged when the lever is let out-so the drive from the crankshaft is (or at least should be) engaged with the gearbox.

Disengaged is lever pulled in, the engine drive should then be disengaged from the gearbox by the clutch.

Click to expand...

Ahhh! Yes. I wasn't being clear. When I say "engaged' I mean the clutch lever is pulled in.

put the bike in gear and see if it kicks through or tries to roll forward.

If it tries to move forward, then your pawl is probably ok.

HAve you got free play in the clutch cable and on the clutch pushrod....slacken off the centre adjuster in the diaphragm and try it in neutral then!