Clucth nut, fixing in place?

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Hobot

Hobot

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I've rusty on the current wisdom to hold clutch nut on w/o crushing the circlip. Seems I gave up on the fold over tab, on two Combats, but forget if they just broke, failed to hold still or lost them all so bodged around em w/o having lost a nut off again. Can't find any in my bins and think I remember there was a reason not to use them so seek feedback. Thinking just a bad of blue locktite and reasonable nip up should do it. Wonder if safety wire could be rigged up?
 
Forget the tab washer. They are soft and crush down and cause the nut to come loose. Either eliminate the washer or get a nice hard belville washer from Mcmaster-carr and use a bit of red locktite. Jim
 
comnoz said:
Forget the tab washer. They are soft and crush down and cause the nut to come loose. Either eliminate the washer or get a nice hard belville washer from Mcmaster-carr and use a bit of red locktite. Jim
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aha! thanks, that is good to know...just rebuilt my clutch and found the nut loose and now I know why, will find a bellville washer
 
OH yeah, now it comes back to me and explains the hard washers in parts bowl I'd thought got mixed up over a couple years sitting around. Thought I remember that as another part of manual to ignore and just work around, thanx. Will shut down main 'puter soon and get the drive train done on Trixie. Didn't have to diddle clutch cable, left it on for engine rebuild and lucked out the ball lever stayed levering.

I've got a notebook 'puter now and wireless router in home, so might have online access out in my shed like you too, maybe, FM radio don't make it there to matter.
Hope some critter ain't knocked chain guard over before paint and clear coat set up.
 
After just recently having the chaincase off/reinstalled to put on the CNY 520 chain kit, I reassembled the clutch per the service manual, using the tab washer. I guess I'm not understanding how a tab washer can be a problem because it's "soft." Isn't in supposed to be soft so it can bend and secure the nut? I don't see how it could allow the nut to loosen but I'm certainly willing to go back in and redo it but I'd like to understand. Have tabbed nuts actually unscrewed?
 
MexicoMike said:
After just recently having the chaincase off/reinstalled to put on the CNY 520 chain kit, I reassembled the clutch per the service manual, using the tab washer. I guess I'm not understanding how a tab washer can be a problem because it's "soft." Isn't in supposed to be soft so it can bend and secure the nut? I don't see how it could allow the nut to loosen but I'm certainly willing to go back in and redo it but I'd like to understand. Have tabbed nuts actually unscrewed?
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mine did not unscrew as the tabs prevented that but was visibly loose (could turn it back and forth a little even with the tabs engaged) and that caused the clutch to have more wobble than normal...I'm guessing the tab washer is getting squished by the pressure from the clutch nut and slowly thinning, also if the clutch center turns back and forth a bit on the mainshaft splines that could wear it too
 
MexicoMike said:
After just recently having the chaincase off/reinstalled to put on the CNY 520 chain kit, I reassembled the clutch per the service manual, using the tab washer. I guess I'm not understanding how a tab washer can be a problem because it's "soft." Isn't in supposed to be soft so it can bend and secure the nut? I don't see how it could allow the nut to loosen but I'm certainly willing to go back in and redo it but I'd like to understand. Have tabbed nuts actually unscrewed?
Click to expand...

The tab washer is soft. I must be or you wouldn't be able to bend it. The problem is during use it continues to crush and get thinner and the nut ends up loose. It has been a common problem forever. I suspect I have loaned my clutch spring compressor out a dozen times over the past 30 years to people who's clutch stopped releasing so they could do a roadside nut tightening. Jim
 
"I suspect I have loaned my clutch spring compressor out a dozen times over the past 30 years to people who's clutch stopped releasing so they could do a roadside nut tightening"

Thanks Jim -

It never would have occurred to me to carry the clutch release tool on the bike! ;)

BUT...and I have to say this...I road my '71 (bought back in the day) until '78 and never had any sort of clutch problem - replaced clutch plates once but never pulled or even looked at that nut. However, I'll go back in and attend to it.
 
Hobot, Les Emery at Norvil on his website says to torque the nut to no more than 40 foot pounds or it will shear.

Last summer before he passed away, Heinz Kegler welded a washer on my clutch basket and we eliminated the circlip. I can now fully hard tighten that nut!
 
It is possible to safety-wire this nut - I do it on the race bike. I drill both sides of the nut, then tie it down looping the safety wire through the holes in the hub.

Funny, I could never understand why my clutch basket would get loose. I would take it apart, the nut would be loose, but the tab washer would still be in place, holding the nut captive. I now see it was getting crushed just like a head gasket! Good to know. Thanks Jim.

Nonetheless I eliminated the tab washer a long time ago in lieu of safety wire. I was tired of not finishing races because of this. I don't like to use red loctite as I often have to take the clutch apart at the track for various reasons and loctite can make that task much harder than it needs to be. But not a factor for a street bike.
 
Actually on my race bikes I just use the .060 thick belville washer. I have never had one come loose with that type of washer . I never used locktite on the racebikes with that washer. I do use locktite on my streetbike as I don't take it apart regularly and in the shop the air impact doesn't care if there is locktite on the nut or not. Jim
 
Just as problematic is the rotor nut, which I now check every time the primary is apart. Mine backed off, parted the chaincase to evacuate the primary and crushed itself on the chainwheel about ten years ago. Because I didn't carry a spare at the time I pushed the bike 10.7 miles home against needless resistance, having forgotten yet again to back off the rear brake cable to compensate for unladen conditions. That was the only time the Combat got over 70 mpg.


Tim Kraakevik
kraakevik@voyager.net
'72 Combat, '74 RH10 850
 
Alrighty this scope of feedback is vital education. I'm a bit pissed its been most a decade since Peel flying and 3 yr since Trixie rod bolt let go, that I have to even ask here or refer to questionable manual again, ugh.
Nut should not need to be any tighter than not coming loose but I may try the welded back up on Peel. That dang circlip back up recessed washer is a pisser too as not really surrounding the circlip enough to hold if from distortion on much nip up, ugh. A custom machined one would be good I'd think if not welding a stop on.
I have 30 mm belt with air holes you can stick a pencil through from clutch nut riding under it over pulley teeth, so worked fine so used as is till converting to 40 mm belt. Ms Peel has a brass bowl for spring puller and rides with her on long trips bolted to skid plate like a single golden breast ship figure head : )

Heinz Kegler was a mentor and part supplier for Ms Peel and me. How many weekends do we have left?

Clucth nut, fixing in place?
 
Well...I went out to the garage, pulled the chaincase cover and the clutch spring. I found that the nut - installed with the tabbed washer, was not nearly as tight as it was when I installed it less than 100 miles ago! In looking at the setup, I noticed that the tabbed washer "cones" inward trying to fill a gap between the mating surfaces of the shaft/gear. And it's easy to see that under use, it would - as folks have noted - tend to "cone" further and further, thus causing the nut to be loose. Seems to me that there should be a 1" OD hardened washer under the nut...so I made a washer to fit, hardened it, drilled the nut for safety wire, tightened the nut to 40 lbs and safetied it through the hub holes as Homeslice suggested. So that should be one other potential problem averted when I ride the bike at the La Carrera Panamericana this year!

But now I'm worried about the rotor nut! ;)


"So Mike, glad to see you back posting. Did you get your internet fixed?"

Thanks Jim - one of the posters here sent me an email suggesting I try going through a proxy server. I had heard the term "proxy server" but had no idea of what they were/did. But I tried one and it worked perfectly! I still can't access this site directly from my normal server here in Mexico City for whatever reason, but going through the proxy, it works great.
 
Mike, do you suppose a letter with a belville washer for the alternator rotor would make it through the mail to you. If so I will stick one in an envelope to you. I have a pile of them. Jim
 
Jim, Thanks - I'd really appreciate that.

It MIGHT make it here - heck, on March 6 we received Xmas cards that were mailed from the US in mid Dec! :)

BUT...effective next Tuesday I'll be in the US for 2 months so you could just mail it to where I'll be in MD. I'll PM you an address.
 
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