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Clear coat gas tank?

Discussion in 'Norton Commando Motorcycles (Classic)' started by jaydee75, Jul 12, 2019.

  1. gortnipper

    gortnipper VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    I am that guy.

    I bought an unused alloy tank and side covers off of a forum member which originally came from Don Pender. It is a Lyta style with a Ceandess cap.

    I had it sprayed with Por15 after reading good reviews, doing a bunch of online looking and talking with my painter.

    There were several mishaps along the way which made it end up looking like this (and to me it looks better here):

    IMG_20190714_090804.jpg

    As you can see, the cap disc is not standard which I never noticed until the seal started failing. It came that way I discovered, because the filler neck is several mm smaller than standard diameter and a stock double lip disc fouls the neck.

    Whoever built this tank used a metal disc and bonded a standard seal to it. However, it was bonded with the seal lop up. Which is backwards from how they normally go. It leaked and caused the Por15 to bubble.

    IMG_20190714_095730.jpg

    So I trimmed back the bubbling finish and bought two AN filler seals and bonded one of them correctly to the cap using JB Weld.

    IMG_20190714_095759.jpg

    And put the other one in my bag for a 1500 mi trip a couple days later.

    At the first fill up saw that the seal was deforming and pulling away from the disc. I had to remove it and flip the disc over to the clean side and use the second seal just laid on the neck. It to deformed quickly and the leak continued for the remainder if the trip.

    IMG_20190714_090155.jpg

    When my local dealer contacted AN about the seals, they originally said that their supplier had used the incorrect material for them. But, after they heard about the tank damage, all went quiet.

    So, a comedy of errors and I have a nice and shitty looking tank.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  2. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    The original Glisten can be applied without hardener like most acrylic enamels. But without the correct hardener they will not be fuel proof. That was likely your problem. Or maybe it was simply not cured long enough -it is slow to cure.

    The original Glisten has been fuel proof on my tank for many years, through many spills and leakage whenever I fill it a bit too much.

    It also stood up on my Wilcox aluminum race tank till it burned with my shop.

    I see it is also available in a 2k urathane but I have never used it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  3. gortnipper

    gortnipper VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    My painter had used it before and knew it. He told me it was a two part and had to set up for several days before use. So, I assume he used the hardener.

    You saw what AN said above that the were told by the distributors.
     
  4. jbruney

    jbruney

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2019
    jaydee I guess your tank as with mine was hand done. If you can keep it then I say great because they were beauties when new I'll wager. When I stripped it I swear the paint seemed 1/4" thick, so I know it had super depth.
     
  5. gortnipper

    gortnipper VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    So I potentially have three faults here, by three parties.

    Still is ending up co$ting me.
     
  6. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008

    I would say set-up time is several weeks to be fuel proof unless you cure it with heat.
    Several days? Not a chance with any hardened acrylic without an oven.

    And Pore15 Glisten has never been a lacquer.
     
  7. gortnipper

    gortnipper VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Great. :mad:
     
  8. jbruney

    jbruney

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2019
    I'd flat be PO'd in your situation gortnipper. At least the damage appears to be pretty isolated for now, but still.....new tank, cap, sorry seal. Aggravating.
     
  9. gortnipper

    gortnipper VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    No shit.

    At this point I have zero confidence in getting the cap/seal situation to work. So am likely looking at trying to find someone to work on the tank and put in an Aero cap and then respray it. At least from what Jim said I now have a bit more confidence in using Por15. I will just let it sit for two months first...
     
  10. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    When I use Pore15 I use an ultraviolet heat lamp after it has dried at room temp for at least a day first.
    About 3 to 4 ft away keeps parts fairly warm but not so hot I can't handle them. Don't let the surface go over ~250 degrees F.
    After a week of that they are nice and hard.
    I did that with my side covers and front fender a couple years ago because I had a trip coming up.
    I used a heatlamp on my aluminum tank also.
    When I did the tank on my fuelie bike it sat on top of my toolbox in front of the furnace in my shop for most of the winter before I used it.

    A heat lamp would probably help with fuel-proofing your tank also.

    Of course I have not tried Pore15 urethane clearcoat so I can't say -it might be even better.

    I know I was disappointed with PPG Delthane. That is what is on my fairing and it picked up rock chips really quickly.

    Oh, and forget the rubber tank seal. I have not seen one that lasts very long with alcohol fuel.
    I use cork. 4X4 inch sheets from the auto parts store. No problems.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  11. gortnipper

    gortnipper VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Thanks. What would be good to adhere it to the disc?
     
  12. gortnipper

    gortnipper VIP MEMBER

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    Nov 11, 2013
    Oh, and just to be clear - the fuel I use does not contain ethanol.
     
  13. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

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    Dec 10, 2008
    Superglue does a pretty good job.

    Best would be a washer with a stepped edge like is on an oem cap. Secure it under the screw in the center.
     
  14. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    And maybe the rubber seal doesn't fail because of ethanol like I figured. It's probably just junk.
     
    gortnipper likes this.
  15. jbruney

    jbruney

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2019
    I was wondering when cork would pop up. For adhesion I'm wondering also if some of the 3M stuff would work out...I need to do my cap gasket also as my tip over last week proved....Don't want the new lacquer going all crackles n bubbles because may not be able to salvage the paint job again, and it would be nice to purchase fuel at the pump.
    I thought burning ethanol in the engine was a big issue when bringing the old lady back from slumber only to find there were bigger issues with the stuff.
     
  16. gortnipper

    gortnipper VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    I will look at that for use with the cork and the smaller ID of the filler neck (compared to OEM), since I wouldnt have to use the standard size rubbers. Certainly would be cheaper/easier than having an Aero cap welded in.
     
  17. o0norton0o

    o0norton0o VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2015
    Gortnipper, it sounds like the finisher did NOT use a hardener to me. Catalyzed finishes usually cure fast. The Por15 Glisten, according to the por website is not a catalyzed finish, so that may have been the problem right there. It


    The Por-15 2K is a catalyzed finish. In fact on the information page for the 2k, it says, "Replaces Glisten-PC, Hardnose" It's pot life is 2 hours, and it's dry time is 12 hours. I've never experimented with it, so I can't say how good it is.

    As far as what Jim is talking about finishes drying for weeks, all finishes have something called "solvent trap", where the exposed surface drys first and it traps solvent in the finish which takes a while to evaporate out. The surface still dries relatively quickly so it should be usable within a few days, but not fully hardened. Then, in the coming weeks the rest of the solvents gas off to full cure and you get full hardness.



    I used spraymax 2k. I believe eastwood company repackages spraymax as their own product, if it's available down under, I wouldn't know, but it's good shit... It's made in germany... This is what I would use...

    https://www.spraymax.com/en-us/products/product/clear-coats-and-spot-blender/2k-clear-glamour/
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
  18. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    On my stock caps I just cut the cork just the same size as the rubber seal and carefully slip it over the washer and tuck it under the edge. I have not found glue was needed.

    But without the washer, superglue will hold the cork in place for a long time.
     
  19. comnoz

    comnoz VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2008
    [QUOTE="
    I used spraymax 2k. I believe eastwood company repackages spraymax as their own product, if it's available down under, I wouldn't know, but it's good shit... It's made in germany... This is what I would use...

    https://www.spraymax.com/en-us/products/product/clear-coats-and-spot-blender/2k-clear-glamour/[/QUOTE]

    Would you have a comparison between the spraymax product and either hardened Pore15 acrylic or Imron as far a chip resistance, for my fairing?

    I need to redo it this coming winter.
     
  20. o0norton0o

    o0norton0o VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2015
    Nope Jim, I don't have all that much experience with Imron or the por-15 stuff. I think you really have to be a few levels of experience more than I am to know the nuances of the many different products out there to be that guy who says, "A is better than B, because..."
     

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