Cleaning Cylinder Before Assembly

Unless you are using break in oils then modern oils are too slippy for a fast break in so it can be a bit hit and miss. Combine that with the coarse grit hone for cast iron rings now being hardly used you could also end up with too fine honing. A dry fit at least gives you a chance to get the break in started and some pressure behind the rings to get past these issues. Been doing it for 20 years including on a 5 cylinder Audi Diesel engine that went on to do 230,000 miles.

I use cheap mineral oil and dump it out after 100 miles or so.
There's an article on SAE research regarding honing used bores which I can't readily find just now (busy-ish), but testing showed just replacing the rings was preferable to honing first, as honing promoted accelerated bore wear and increased oil consumption. Also some interesting comments around glaze-busting. By definition a glaze is a deposition layer, when what we're seeing is shiny metal.
To paraphrase a popular blacksmithing show "These rings WILL bed in".

I also use brake cleaner to flush the bores.
Recently got a couple of sets of barrels back from carbide coating, and they took some cleaning.
 
After cleaning the cylinders with soap and water I come back immediately with ATF on a toilet paper pad and wipe them thoroughly. It is easy to see any crud on the pad. Keep doing it until the pads come out clean.
As for installing cylinders to pistons I use #20 non-detergent oil (hydraulic jack oil) as a thin smear on the thrust faces of the piston. If done dry then there is usually fine vertical scratches up and down the bore. This solves that problem.
Just to see what happens I oiled a B50 piston with a thin coating of the above oil, rings and all. I installed the cylinders and put a strong Makita drill on the crankshaft nut and spun it off and on for about 5 minutes. The bore looked great and no scratches. I removed the cylinder and inspected the piston. The oil on the rings had turned grey with micro particles so I flushed the piston - after removing the rings - with carb cleaner and washed the cylinder again. Currently the B50 is running great and I would do it again. Doing this to a twin cylinder would be more work but I would like to try it.
 
FWIW, i used Total Seal Quick Seat. It’s supposed to bed the rings quickly. Does it? Who knows

 
When younger and more obsessive, I used to bed ‘em in by hand using Solvol Autosol and elbow grease !

Probably did no good whatsoever, but seemed like I was being smart at the time !!
 
anyone tried a flash rust preventer in the soapy water used to clean out the bores?

"Anytime you get a bare metal surface wet, it will flash rust quickly...
So the answer is pretty simple: treat the water with a flash rust preventer with a product like Holdtight 102. This product removes contaminates and salts from the water not allowing rust to form. Supposedly protects the surface for 2-4 days...The product is to be mixed in water at a 50:1 or 100: ratio."
 
Whilst it may sound like an issue, there is actually no problem with 'flash rusting' on your cylinder bore!

In days gone by, newly cast iron barrels were left outside to 'mature'.

What this means is they were allowed to accumulate a light surface rusting on the bore. Essentially, the bore surface becomes a little uneven, and holds oil longer than a fresh bore.
 
I was told to use the hottest soapy water you can stand to both soften the cutting oil and prevent excessive rust just by evaporating quickly. Assemble it all dry, add oil to the sump, prime the pump, and getting it running and flinging oil asap.

Seems by adding steps and products to what is a pretty simple step, you're inviting trouble. Maybe my mentor recognized me as an idiot though, and kept it simple for my own good. Good chance of that.
 
Whilst it may sound like an issue, there is actually no problem with 'flash rusting' on your cylinder bore!

In days gone by, newly cast iron barrels were left outside to 'mature'.

What this means is they were allowed to accumulate a light surface rusting on the bore. Essentially, the bore surface becomes a little uneven, and holds oil longer than a fresh bore.
I assume the big cast iron engine blocks were set outside for a year to pass through several heating and cooling cycles to relieve any stresses in the new casting. When that settles down they take the raw block and machine it.
At a local machine shop...Mickey's Machine in South Lake Tahoe, now gone...I watched him bore and hone a V8. After the bore he installed a torque plate. It was so out of round with the torque plate that it was a real fight moving the hone up and down. I watched it get easier and easier as it approached the finish size. Quite a demonstration.
 
I assume the big cast iron engine blocks were set outside for a year to pass through several heating and cooling cycles to relieve any stresses in the new casting. When that settles down they take the raw block and machine it.
At a local machine shop...Mickey's Machine in South Lake Tahoe, now gone...I watched him bore and hone a V8. After the bore he installed a torque plate. It was so out of round with the torque plate that it was a real fight moving the hone up and down. I watched it get easier and easier as it approached the finish size. Quite a demonstration.
He should have bored it with the torque plate then you just leave 2-3 thou and have no unusual shape to hone out , just the extra hassle and weight of a 2" torque plate bolted on , I got mine cnc profiled for my small block ford blocks , it makes a difference , as the bolts on the 351s are at 100ft lbs .
 
Wasn’t the leaving castings outside to ripen done before boring??
That might need a little more research. I recall conversations and magazine articles around the work of 'Matt Holder' (hopefully I got that right, it's a while back now).

I can see the sense in both before and after for different reasons. Stability before machining as mentioned above.

But any rust present before machining should be removed by the processes, so would not create the oil retention benefits referred to.

(Unless possibly the bore was done but not honed till after rusting.)

Matt Holder produced barrels in batches as his company Aerco, but he was also involved in Scott production 'post Scott', if you know what I mean, after he bought the defunct company.

In the late '70s my friend had, and let me ride, a '1958 Birmingham Scott' Built in Birmingham by Mr Holder in 1972 to the last spec. At the time it was the most exotic thing I had ridden.
 
After cleaning the cylinders with soap and water I come back immediately with ATF on a toilet paper pad and wipe them thoroughly. It is easy to see any crud on the pad. Keep doing it until the pads come out clean.
As for installing cylinders to pistons I use #20 non-detergent oil (hydraulic jack oil) as a thin smear on the thrust faces of the piston. If done dry then there is usually fine vertical scratches up and down the bore. This solves that problem.
Just to see what happens I oiled a B50 piston with a thin coating of the above oil, rings and all. I installed the cylinders and put a strong Makita drill on the crankshaft nut and spun it off and on for about 5 minutes. The bore looked great and no scratches. I removed the cylinder and inspected the piston. The oil on the rings had turned grey with micro particles so I flushed the piston - after removing the rings - with carb cleaner and washed the cylinder again. Currently the B50 is running great and I would do it again. Doing this to a twin cylinder would be more work but I would like to try it.
Somehow you have reminded me of a Nottingham based Gold Star enthusiast of many years back. I knew his son in the 1970s during my RAF service.

He built a rig with an electric motor and mounted it in his shed to drive his rebuilt motors to run them in! And, as you suggest, he stripped and cleaned the parts before final build and installation.
 
This whole video is interesting but listen carefully starting at 7:00 minutes:

OK, I'll stop - lubed cylinders for me when I assemble.
 
There's an article on SAE research regarding honing used bores which I can't readily find just now (busy-ish), but testing showed just replacing the rings was preferable to honing first, as honing promoted accelerated bore wear and increased oil consumption.
I have had my 1968 Commando since 1972 and as soon as I learnt that pistons in the early model could crack from the expansion slots, I replaced them with the later type. The bike had only done about 50000 miles and didn't need a rebore so I just fitted the new pistons/rings without even a light hone of the bores. I treated the bike gently for about 2000 miles but there was no sign of the rings bedding in. Since the rebuild oil consumption had been horrendous and showed no sign of improving, so I it was time for drastic measures. A 25 mile Sunday ride along a (private) deserted dual-carriageway with the throttle nailed wide open, followed by 20 miles home at a more sensible sub 100 mph speed finally ran in the rings. Never again did I have to top up the oil tank between oil changes.

On the subject of cleaning freshly machined barrels, the use of soapy water was almost certainly down to cost and possibly operator safety, nothing else.
 
I’m not commenting on how a cylinder should or should not be prepped for assembly, but I am offering an explanation, from a surface science standpoint, of why one would use an aqueous soap solution in doing so. Although we may perceive a finished honed cylinder to be relatively smooth, from a surface science standpoint it is a very rough coarse surface (mountains and valleys) that is filled with a mixture of honing oil and extraordinarily fine metallic debris (think of the material making up the hard clay layer in the bottom of the honing tank or the bottom of an automatic transmission pan after years of use). We are kidding ourselves if we think we can wipe out all the honing debris that is trapped in the highly irregular metal surface by passing a spirits-soaked rag over the peaks. However, we go through our ritual with a spirits-soaked rag until it comes out visually clean and proclaim the surface to be clean, but is it?

Spirits are a low surface energy fluid that readily wets on most surfaces – both polar high energy surfaces and non-polar low energy surfaces, e.g. metal and plastics respectively. Water is a high surface energy fluid that wets high energy surfaces (clean metals), but does not readily wet most low energy surfaces like plastics or oil-contaminated metal. If we start wiping a freshly honed bore with spirits, we’ll remove some of the honing debris off the peaks and simultaneously dilute the honing oil that is present in the valleys. If we repeat the process a 2nd and 3rd time, we’ll remove slightly more debris and dilute the honing oil more. However, if the surface were truly clean at this stage it would be free of all honing oil contamination, and possibly all honing debris. A simple and easy method to determine if the surface is free of oil is to simply place a small drop of clean water (distilled) on the bore and observe it. If the bore were clean steel/iron the water will fully wet and spread on this high energy metal surface. If the bore has oil-contamination present, the water drop will remain as a bead on the surface and no further wetting will occur. If the bore is still contaminated with oil, wouldn’t it still be contaminated with microfine honing debris down in the crevasses, since there is no real driving force to move the debris out of such places?

Let’s assume for the moment that the wetting test with water confirmed that the bore is still contaminated with oil. At this stage of cleaning the large majority of oil and debris have been removed from the bore via wiping, yet our present conundrum is “how can we now remove the last traces of oil and debris from our oil-covered bore surface”? We know that water (high surface energy fluid) can’t wet oily metal, but what if we could somehow get water to wet the metallic surface, thereby displacing the layer of oily debris from the clefts and fissures of the honed surface. The answer to this situation is to add a good surfactant to water (dawn dish soap?), which dramatically lowers its surface energy and allows it to begin wetting the oily surface. By aggressively scrubbing with a fine bristled brush we are adding a significant amount of agitation, turbulence and physical contact which allows the soap solution to begin wetting and displacing the oil/debris remaining in the crevices. With continuous scrubbing the entire bore surface becomes wetted, thereby displacing the oil and its accompanying debris from the metallic surface where they can be washed away with fresh water. Following such aqueous cleaning, if the wetting test with water, described above, is repeated it should now confirm that the bore is oil-free.

The above rationale hopefully explains why one would consider employing a hot, high strength soap solution as a final step in bore cleaning. Your choice. My $0.02.
 
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