Charging (or battery) issue?!

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When I was going over my electrics I noticed something. I was checking the voltage at the ignition switch.

With the headlight off/ switch on/ bike not running:
battery voltage (measured @ the battery) was 12.5volts.
Voltage @ switch (white wire) 12.5

With headlight on/switch on/bike not running:
battery voltage @ battery 12.5v
Voltage @ switch (white wire) 10.5v

With headlight off/ Switch on/bike not running: Pressing the horn button (original, non functioning horn)
Battery voltage @ battery 12.v
Voltage @ switch (white wire) 9.5v

With headlight off/ Switch on/bike not running: Pressing the horn button (replacement)
Battery voltage @ battery 12v
Voltage @ switch (white wire) 11.5v


This is why I ran dedicated circuits w/relays to my horn and headlights. Now I have the same voltage at my battery and the white wire on my ignition switch and the power wire to my Boyer

If your charging system is working properly there is still no guarantee you are getting the right voltage to the rest of your bike.
 
I'll measure the alternator output in the weekend.
The led warning light is a very good idea!
Regarding the blue capacitor, I don't think it has ever done it's job.
I've never managed to kickstart the engine with the battery disconnected only relying to the capacitor.
On the other hand, I don't know if the capacitor can actually do what it was meant to do together with the Boyer ignition.
Maybe it can only work with contact points.
 
alfa10530 said:
I'll measure the alternator output in the weekend.
The led warning light is a very good idea!
Regarding the blue capacitor, I don't think it has ever done it's job.
I've never managed to kickstart the engine with the battery disconnected only relying to the capacitor.
On the other hand, I don't know if the capacitor can actually do what it was meant to do together with the Boyer ignition.
Maybe it can only work with contact points.
Click to expand...

The cap is really only there to allow the bike to run with a dead/missing battery as a means of keeping a reserve online for when the ignition advance moves out of sync with the alternator's output waveform.

Strictly based on other posts from this web site (since I don't own one), with the Boyer, it's not likely that you could get enough output at cranking speed to fire the plugs.

Get the voltage warning light! http://www.sparkbright.co.uk/products/p ... se810.html in the 8mm Eclipse drops right in the hole recently vacated by the assimilator lens, and is very informative. Just don't do like I did and get so mesmerized that you almost rear end the car in front of you!
With a fully charged battery, mine flashes as ≥12.25 volts at idle, then goes Amber and quickly to green as it passes through 1800 rpm. With the headlamp on (55w H4), I don't see the green again until ~3800 rpm. 'Very comforting to immediately know what the charging system is doing.

Nathan
 
Nate,

I was installing a similar unit , that is how I saw the big voltage drop at my ignition switch. I am curious to know something. If you have time hook a voltmeter on to your battery and see if the voltage at the battery corresponds with the light. I believe you should see 12 volts (I think that is the tripping voltage to green) before 3800 rpm. If you get 12 @ the battery you should have 12 @ the switch and 12v at the switch should send that light to green.
I have a 3 Phase and a podtronics and I believe I get almost 14v at 3800 rpm. I get 12+ at 2000 rpm.
I also found that light distracting/interesting so I went back to the red idiot light. A.D.D. got the better of me.

Thanks,
Pete
 
I've checked volt drop from battery to headlight via factory path to find it loses about a volt in resistance if not relayed.
 
Thanks Hobot.
I'm sure I had other things going on like dirty/loose connectors and switch contacts. But 1 volt here and 1 volt there, plus more importantly who knows what the amp drop was. It all adds up.
If you at @ <12 volts most EI are not happy.

Pete
 
alfa10530 said:
I'll measure the alternator output in the weekend.
The led warning light is a very good idea!
Regarding the blue capacitor, I don't think it has ever done it's job.
I've never managed to kickstart the engine with the battery disconnected only relying to the capacitor.
On the other hand, I don't know if the capacitor can actually do what it was meant to do together with the Boyer ignition.
Maybe it can only work with contact points.
Click to expand...


What type of dry cell battery was the one you replaced?

Glen
 
Both old and new ones are of the same type:

Description LC-VA1212P1 (LC-RA1212P1) Panasonic Sealed Lead Acid Battery
Chemistry Sealed Lead
Voltage 12V
Nominal Capacity 12000mAh
 
alfa10530 said:
Both old and new ones are of the same type:

Description LC-VA1212P1 (LC-RA1212P1) Panasonic Sealed Lead Acid Battery
Chemistry Sealed Lead
Voltage 12V
Nominal Capacity 12000mAh
Click to expand...

Those types of battery weren't designed, and aren't really suitable, for vehicle use. They need a more controlled charging rate than a vehicle (particularly a Commando) can provide. It will probably work but it's life will be limited. A sealed vehicle battery would be a better/safer bet.

Ian
 
:roll: :roll: :roll: Battery "type" debating has SFA to do with charging issue.. Stick to the basic question ....

I still waiting to find out what the system is charging at the battery with a voltmeter.... "Idiot Lights" are exactly that...

Charging (or battery) issue?!
 
I found significant voltage drop through the wiring harness to the ignition switch. Almost every connector had considerable resistance, interestingly not at the make-break connector but in the crimp connections. I just bypassed it all with a 14 ga wire from a new main fuse to the ignition switch. Surprisingly, while I expected to see resistance through the ignition switch it turned out to be a good connection with no voltage drop through it.

I confess that I originally found the voltage monitoring LED fascinating but after a while it just fell to the occasional glance in my scan.

The 3 phase alternator lets me keep the headlight on with no worries; it's hard to believe Norton didn't include one in the MK3.
 
olChris said:
:roll: :roll: :roll: Battery "type" debating has SFA to do with charging issue.. Stick to the basic question ....

I still waiting to find out what the system is charging at the battery with a voltmeter.... "Idiot Lights" are exactly that...

Charging (or battery) issue?!
Click to expand...


My my, such aggression. Sorry I made any comment, but it was hardly 'off topic' IMHO.

Ian
 
Les,
I'm pretty sure Triumph was using them on their Tridents in 1975.
Pete
 
Les,

Just pulled the Triumph service manual I use to check my RM-24. Yep, you are correct. Shows the 1979E gets the RM-24. For some reason I thought when they went to the E start Trident they went with the bigger alternator.

Pete
 
olChris said:
:roll: :roll: :roll: Battery "type" debating has SFA to do with charging issue.. Stick to the basic question ....

I still waiting to find out what the system is charging at the battery with a voltmeter.... "Idiot Lights" are exactly that...

Charging (or battery) issue?!
Click to expand...


Self-appointed moderator, an abusive profane one at that! And fitted with the dual personality option.

Quote from olChris. " .. It never ceases to amaze me how some, seem to be so narrow minded and to be unable to "Live and let live".. Clearly this thread has indicates just that.. Its not the end of the world if somebody want to talk about BBQ recipies on a M/C forum......"
 
Deets55 said:
Nate,

I was installing a similar unit , that is how I saw the big voltage drop at my ignition switch. I am curious to know something. If you have time hook a voltmeter on to your battery and see if the voltage at the battery corresponds with the light. I believe you should see 12 volts (I think that is the tripping voltage to green) before 3800 rpm. If you get 12 @ the battery you should have 12 @ the switch and 12v at the switch should send that light to green.
I have a 3 Phase and a podtronics and I believe I get almost 14v at 3800 rpm. I get 12+ at 2000 rpm.
I also found that light distracting/interesting so I went back to the red idiot light. A.D.D. got the better of me.

Thanks,
Pete
Click to expand...

The Sparkbright http://www.sparkbright.co.uk/products/p ... se810.html doesn't trip to green until breaking 13.2 volt, so, once you see this, you're entering a positive charging state. I connected the lamp to the headlight relay (for ease of installation) that's supplied by a 14ga wire, and, with the headlight on, it tracks less than 0.5 volt of battery voltage. Sure, it's not ideal, but I can mentally apply the offset. I'm currently running a questionable Wassell 16A single phase with the Podtronics regulator/rectifier.

olChris, this isn't an idiot light in the purest sense, as it gives much more than good/bad info, but I agree with your summation of such. I prefer to run both idiot lights and gauges in my autos, as the big red light can alert me to a condition that the gauges show me, but was too lazy/distracted to notice myself. Call it "Redundancy".

Nathan
 
My old turn signal flasher changes cadence with voltage, verified with voltmeter. Constant confirmation... good, so-so, and out to lunch.
 
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