central oil tank, HELP

Hello all,
I am working on a friends bike that was made from parts, by his father some years ago. It seems like I go one step forward and two back! I have replaced a bodged up air filter with new parts, filter element & perforated between piece. However when I offer up the carburettors there is not enough space, the whole shebang needs to be about 20mm rearward. Now some questions?

Is the early central oil tank models air filter element thinner than latter models?ow the hell do y tsnkou remove the

Does the top oil tank mount tab mount behind the frame gusset, or in front? I was trying to rock the top of the tank rearward.

How the hell do you remove the oil tank, does the engine have to come out?

Looking forward to the learned ones wisdom thanks.

On a brighter note, I have fitted some of the hard anodised throttle slides, they look pretty impressive.

Cheers Richard

Buggered if I know , but put a central oil tank in my 2A 750 .

THAT rings a bell. :roll: , im sure you put it in before all the tripe , top tilted back 45 Deg,or maybe from the r.h.side .

Theres one way it goes in anyway ! . :mrgreen: :idea: Pretty sure tag goes in back, Think tank was rolled in from R.H. , tilted.All those little doohickeys need a close look. GROMMETS , washer ! :lol: etc .

Lift up tray after tank is in .

Bleddy air cleaner was stock 750 . It all fits in there , on the third attempt if you have a dozen coffe's . :shock: :idea: :wink:

You can get the tank in by taking most everything else off around it. Do like Matt does and rock the bat tray down to lever it in. The tab goes in front (below) the frame and there is about a 3/8" spacer between the frame web and the lip. There are also 2 spacers between the tank bottom curved part and the front of the bat tray.

To get the air filter on mine, I have to take the carbs off. No way can I put it together otherwise, I have about 3/8" from the front of the air filter to the carbs. You've got to take the fuel tank off to keep from beating things up anyhow, so it's not that much more to get the carbs off. You'll need the special Allen key with the short end to tighten the manifold to engine bolts. Once you get used and know you have to do it, most of the battle is over. Accept it and you won't be throwing the filter into the next county.



Dave
69S

Thanks Dave & Matt,

There is deffinitely less room between carbs and aircleaner, than on my 850 and that is tight. Okay so the oil tnak and battery tray are all one part, well they are on this bike, I cannot separate them. I would liketo remove the tank to flush out sludge and also the LH rear tab that bolts to the Z plate has snapped off on the bend. This part of the bike is about my least favourite, always oily and plenty of potential for skinned knuckles, hehe!
So there is no difference with the filter, from early to late commando? I might whimpout and fit the K&N dual pod system.

Cheers Richard

What is the year on the headstamp or frame number? I really doubt if the battery tray and oil tank are one unit. It may appear so. There are 2 bolts below the tank that hold it on the tray. You should braze the broken part back on and you'll need to get it off to do that. Here's the 2 bolts.



Here's the tray and tank, your tank may be slightly different for the breather tube, the tank is on it's side, not the way it mounts.



Here's what holds them together.



Not much difference between the early and later filters, just less room on the early ones. There is no way to get those gaskets in between the carbs and the filter with both on.

You cold get the K&N R-0990 and forget the filter. I found one on Amazon for $30.



Dave
69S

I have the same issue with mine; and I can't get the float bowls off the carb to check that they are clean.

I recall seeing that one vendor (can't remember which) sells a narrower version of the perforated side panel of the air cleaner; and I imagine that someone will sell a narrower version of the air cleaner itself but I haven't found it yet. I have thought to myself that if I get around to seeing who does sell a narrower air cleaner, it might be worth purchasing one when the filter needs changing, and cutting down the side panel of the air filter to give a bit more room between carbs and air cleaner.

Dave,

that is awsome, now I can see totally what is going on. It would appear the tank and carrier bracket have been either bonded or attached together somehow. I removed the two bolts and al that came away was the back end cap of the filter, and this I discovered was a front cap with the carb holes blanked off. I have in my 850 spares a complete rear end cap with the tab to hold the ignition switch, now I know why this bike does not have a proper mount for the ign. switch?
So I need to separate the tank from the carrier bracket, that makes sense, I could not see the whole assembly comming out as a unit. I will check the join between the tank and filter,the previous owner used copius amounts of silicon sealer to bond rear carb back plate to the front of the tank, so maybe the same trick has been employed between the tankand carrier. There is nice thick goop on the bottom of the tank, and I would like to clean that, tig up the tab and re-fit.

Again, thank you guys for your invaluable information and help.

Cheers Richard

Chris,
That's not a bad idea. If you find a narrower filter let me know. I could use probably 1/2" to 3/4" less perforated filter cover length and the rubbers would still easily reach. I wouldn't think it would be too hard to cut off that much, and then maybe I could get things in and out without taking off the carbs.

May be another winter project.

Dave
69S

How about this one from Ramflo I have on my bike?

Those winter projects....

It's winter over here now, and I am into those now. It is amazing how one thing leads into another, and every action has an equal and opposite reaction; and what needs doing that wasn't planned for. For instance, I have just installed a new centre stand that I bought from Jordan off this site. In itself that process has gone well, apart from doing my neck in trying to get the bike up on a stand; mine has only had a side stand before, and there is obviously a knack of getting it onto a centre stand that I don't have...

I was aware that the side stand was loose, had delayed attempting to fix it until I installed the new centre stand so that I didn't have the bike on the side stand while I was trying to fix it. I found the top bolt of the side stand had fallen off (like the bolts on the after market oil filter and the reflector under the fuel tank - I clearly don't use enough locktite and spring washers...) so that only one bolt was holding it to the frame - a bit scary given the pressure of kick starting the bike on that.

A simple enough fix, but in the meantime I have replaced the two in one exhaust that was on the bike with the original roadster exhausts and twin peashooters that were given to me by the previous owner (after yet another $1000 of chrome....)I haven't been able to get the exhausts lined up properly - one sticks out further to one side than the other - which looks really terrible and amateurish when viewed from behind, and the issue is that the exhaust on the side stand side has to stick out further than the other side (which needs to be tucked well under to clear the kick start) as the bolt on the side stand extends out and forces the exhaust out. I thought that I would reverse the bolt, so that the bolt head would be next to the exhaust and provide some extra room so that I could push the exhaust nearer to the frame. However that means that the other end of the bolt fouls the side stand spring (I have a non standard triumph side stand mated to the Norton frame, and I think mated to the lug (? correct term?) which bolts to the frame. A pretty simple fix, but I have now been to 3 outlets trying to purchase the right size UNF bolt and nut; it is something like a 5/16 UNF bolt between 1 and 3/4 and 2 inches long; and will have to take time out of work to travel to a specialist fastener outlet...

A similar story with the installation of my new sparx ignition, which requires three male female bullet connectors – acquired by mail order so that I don’t have to use the crap ones available at local auto stores, and requires me to make up a bracket to fix the regulator to the frame, which in turn means that I have to shift the aftermarket horn (which I installed after my brand new stock horn vibrated off – I still have it for what it is worth). Do you think that, in a city of a million people, I can go down the road and buy a strip of aluminium half an inch wide so that I can cut it, bend it and drill four holes in it to mount it to the frame and bolt the rectifier onto it? Seemingly impossible to buy from a retail outlet; I think that I will have to drive to specialist trade metal dealer during work hours...

The wire connecting the two coils vibrated off during my last trip, and I was stuck in a gorge (Karanagahake Gorge for those that know- at least a scenic place to break down….) without pliers, and managed to break the cheap spade connectors on the wire while trying to put it back on by hand. I was saved by a good Samaritan with a better tool kit than me; but I have been trying to find some decent spade connectors so that I can do a proper fix on the bodge that we did in the gorge. Again, no local auto supplier has decent ones; I found some female spade connectors at a marine supplier yesterday, but they had no matching male connectors; I don’t need them for that wire, but need one to make up a new connector for my harness when I install the new sparx alternator, the original harness connected with a spade connector to the original rectifier and was earthed from there; as I am taking out the rectifier I need to earth it directly.
So three relatively straight forward little jobs made frustrating by the lack of the right size fastener, the right electrical connectors, and a piece of plain metal; by the time I am done I am sure that I will have spent more time acquiring these parts than actually doing the fixes.
As regards the oil filter, I ddi at one time spend some time on the net lookiing for a narrower version; given the rantge that are availabl I have little dobut that there is one there, but it is a matter of tracking it down, which I haven't done yet.

Holy Cow Chris,

You need a bit more of the force with you. I don't have any trouble getting the float bowls off.

The centre stand: what I do is first take the seat off. Get a piece of 2x6 about a foot long, run the front wheel up on that, pull the centre stand down on 2 blocks of 1x6, put my shoe on the tab on the drive side, make sure both feet hit (so it's balanced), and pray to the strength gods and pull back with 2 hands on the rear loop. Make sure you don't have your Crocks under that tab or your toe will let you know, don't ask. I only ever put it on the centre stand in the garage. I also have to carry a 1x4 and a 2x4 around with me because with the kickstand on a flat surface, the bike leans too much for me to start it and I just don't have the strength to get it up on the centre stand without help.

I replaced my early kick stand keeper that had 2 C-clips on it with a 7/16 stainless with the head on the outside and a nylock on the inside. Might be better with a grade 8 bolt. But I've got the original kick and centre stands.

My S exhaust is about 1mm above the primary, too close, and I even put a long 4' piece of tubing in the header, and cranked it up and out as far as I thought it would go without cracking the chrome. It did move, at least I got it off the primary. I've seen pictures where there must be 1/2" or more of clearance from the lower pipe which when tightening wants to go down on the primary. Don't know how they do that, or it may just be the luck of good headers.

Electrical terminals are another issue. Hard to find decent ones at the local stores. You may have to splurge for an internet buy for some nice ones, enough to last. I'm still using my original Lucas except for a few pieces.

Dave
69S

Dave,
I have welded up the battery tray, got my TIG out and made a beaut job of the broken rear tab & also the bat bulkhead had come loose. I have a spare 850 rear filter end plate to use, on the original set up how is the oil tank joined to this?
I gather the tank kind of floats between on the battery carrier, I was going to fit thin insertion rubber between the parts. But I will need to join up the tank to the rear filter end plate somehow?

Will beadblast tank and tray then paint.

Cheers Rich

Look at the pictures of the oil tank above. See the 2 - 1/4-28 bolts coming out of the front bottom of the battery tray? Put 2 spacers on them and between the two holes in the bottom lip of the oil tank and the battery tray. Only other place the tank mounts is the tongue off the top and a spacer between it and centre hole in the web between the frame tubes where they come down off the central tube.

I'm not sure how the 850 air filter works, so can't advise you there, I think all that stuff was pretty different after 70 when they went to the side oil tank and a different back plate for the air filter. I doubt if you can mix the two. See item 43 here, http://www.oldbritts.com/1971_g14.html that is what replaced the front of the oil tank for the side mount tanks, but it still has the same mounting points.

The air filter stuff in that page looks just like mine, it's just the oil tank takes place of item 43.

Dave
69S

Thanks Dave, that set up from old Brits is the same as what I have, see the little breather pipe, I took that off so the plate will mate up right next to the tank. The top mounting tab, is this connected to your oil tank, or is it as the Old Brits and attached to the AC bracket. If so I will remove the top tab off my oil tank and use the AC tab.
I sat all the battery bracket and rear AC plate in there with the filter and it lines up nice with the carbs.

Cheers Richard

I'm missing something here? If you have that plate like the 71 layout - item 43 - then you don't have a central oil tank. The central oil tank incorporates that plate as the front part of the tank. As far as I know I've never seen a blow up sheet on the central oil tank mounting. Let me see if I have some pictures of it mounted.

Here's a picture of the tank mounted on the battery tray from the bottom.


Here's a picture of the top of it mounted on the tray.


Does that help? Note, some of the central oil tanks have the breather going into the top of the main body, not the top hat like mine.

Dave
69S