Center and Side Stand Bushings

swooshdave · Apr 11, 2010

So I got new bushings from Old Britts.

Tried the ones for the center stand. Just flopped about in the holes. Maybe they are worn, sure hope not.

Then tried the side stand one. Side stand is NEW (Firebird brand) and same thing. Ok, what's going on?

Bushing are all .625 OD and the holes for them are about .68in.

(For once, no pics... yet)

MarshalNorton · Apr 11, 2010

I know they are different for 750 and 850 models.
My bolts were loose and sections of the threaded areas were wiped smooth.
I used orig. bushes w/in the orig centerstand cradle but purchased two new bolts.
The bolts are different the thinner headbolt one goes on the drivers(left side seated on bike)
so it doesn't foul the center stand spring.
The 850 bushes have a collar on them and do not sit flush inside the cradle.
The cradle has to be augged out to use newer bushes and centerstand.
If you have the latter bushes they will have a shoulder and yes the bush will be a smaller diameter.
The later cradle rested on the collar of the bush as opposed to the bush itself on the 750's.
Hope this makes sense?
Marshal

Ron L · Apr 12, 2010

The bolts are different the thinner headbolt one goes on the drivers(left side seated on bike)

The original bolts are both the same (062040) 7/16 - 20 X 1 1/4 but thinning the head makes good sense. Also make sure the bolt head goes to the inside and the nut to the outside for spring clearance.

As to the bushing sizes, the cradle and side stand may well be worn. Usually they don't wear concentrically, but create an oblong hole. I have had problems with side stand spacers being too short and loose fit of center stand spacers, so have taken to making my own.

The spacer needs to be an easy sliding fit and longer than the combined length of the centerstand/cradle or lug/centerstand as the stand should pivot on the bushing and not press against the bolt and try to unscrew it.

0.055" clearance sounds like a lot, but probably won't cause any problem, especially at the centerstand. The side stand will allow a little more lean angle than a tighter clearance, but likely not a problem. Just make sure it is long enough that the bolt does not bear on the stand and make it drag.

swooshdave · Apr 12, 2010

Ron L said:
The bolts are different the thinner headbolt one goes on the drivers(left side seated on bike)

Click to expand...

The original bolts are both the same (062040) 7/16 - 20 X 1 1/4 but thinning the head makes good sense. Also make sure the bolt head goes to the inside and the nut to the outside for spring clearance.

As to the bushing sizes, the cradle and side stand may well be worn. Usually they don't wear concentrically, but create an oblong hole. I have had problems with side stand spacers being too short and loose fit of center stand spacers, so have taken to making my own.

The spacer needs to be an easy sliding fit and longer than the combined length of the centerstand/cradle or lug/centerstand as the stand should pivot on the bushing and not press against the bolt and try to unscrew it.

0.055" clearance sounds like a lot, but probably won't cause any problem, especially at the centerstand. The side stand will allow a little more lean angle than a tighter clearance, but likely not a problem. Just make sure it is long enough that the bolt does not bear on the stand and make it drag.

What makes me concerned is the side stand is a repro part.

Ron L · Apr 12, 2010

What makes me concerned is the side stand is a repro part.

I hear you. Is the hole in the frame lug the same size as the hole in the leg? I have no experience with "Firebird" stands. Is returning it an option? If not then making a proper bushing would not be a difficult task.

swooshdave · Apr 12, 2010

Ron L said:
What makes me concerned is the side stand is a repro part.

Click to expand...

I hear you. Is the hole in the frame lug the same size as the hole in the leg? I have no experience with "Firebird" stands. Is returning it an option? If not then making a proper bushing would not be a difficult task.

Did not check yet.

grandpaul · Apr 12, 2010

Very sad with worn bits there on the sidestand.

My Blue monoshocker "fainted" on me at the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation fundraiser last Saturday, it hyper-extended and collapsed against my '53 Triumph chopper, resulting in ANOTHER nasty gash to the paint on the Dreer boat-tail seat (third time will result in a repaint of everything).

Watch out for that, it's easy to miss until it happens. Those Firebird kickstands will easily wear out the shape of the mounting lug to a point where they can hyper extend resulting in a lay-down.

swooshdave · Apr 12, 2010

grandpaul said:
Very sad with worn bits there on the sidestand.

My Blue monoshocker "fainted" on me at the Pediatric Brain Tumor Foundation fundraiser last Saturday, it hyper-extended and collapsed against my '53 Triumph chopper, resulting in ANOTHER nasty gash to the paint on the Dreer boat-tail seat (third time will result in a repaint of everything).

Watch out for that, it's easy to miss until it happens. Those Firebird kickstands will easily wear out the shape of the mounting lug to a point where they can hyper extend resulting in a lay-down.

So it's best to sleeve them and then bush them?

grandpaul · Apr 12, 2010

It's best to ensure that the sidestand's range of motion is DEFINITLY LIMITED at the far end. I'm going to weld up the original lug to include a good 1/4" of solid stop.

Ron L · Apr 12, 2010

How can you tell if it is a "Firebird" stand? Can anyone post a picture?

swooshdave · Apr 12, 2010

Ron L said:
How can you tell if it is a "Firebird" stand? Can anyone post a picture?

Big ol' label still on it.

swooshdave · Apr 12, 2010

Are the 750 centerstands different from the 850s? As in use different bushings?

rgrigutis · Apr 12, 2010

I remember a thread a while back that referenced machining the bushings holes for ball bearings. Thought that was a neat idea and plan to incorporate it on my '74. Decided to run sans cs on the '72.

swooshdave · Apr 12, 2010

rgrigutis said:
I remember a thread a while back that referenced machining the bushings holes for ball bearings. Thought that was a neat idea and plan to incorporate it on my '74. Decided to run sans cs on the '72.

I now suspect the sidestand and centerstand are off a 850. Now to see what size the holes on the frame and cradle are...

swooshdave · Apr 13, 2010

Ron L said:
How can you tell if it is a "Firebird" stand? Can anyone post a picture?

And the center stand. Could have easily came off our MkIII parts bike.

I'm really suspecting both stands are for later models. The side stand part number goes back to a MkIII and Old Britts lists it as "Side Stand MK3, Works for 72 on with Space". An email into Ella for clarification.

ML · Apr 13, 2010

I recently fitted a Mk2 850 stand to a '71 750 and it fits fine but you have to bore out the pivot holes on the 750 cradle to get the larger 850 stepped bushes in. And please do use a nyloc nut, in the recent past, I've had two drop off the bolts on the left side on 850's. They both exhibit ovalised holes on the left but not on the right not sure why that is, maybe the foot lever force?

Mick

BillT · Apr 13, 2010

ML said:
I recently fitted a Mk2 850 stand to a '71 750 and it fits fine but you have to bore out the pivot holes on the 750 cradle to get the larger 850 stepped bushes in. And please do use a nyloc nut, in the recent past, I've had two drop off the bolts on the left side on 850's. They both exhibit ovalised holes on the left but not on the right not sure why that is, maybe the foot lever force?

Mick

Ovalized hole might be due to the spring. It anchors just above that bolt, and I think exerts more force on that side than the other, and that is a pretty beefy spring.

I had to replace my center stand on Saturday.

I went to a sort of local (50 miles away) bike night on Thursday. Just as I got back on the highway to head home, I heard the metallic 'tink-tink' of something dragging. Center stand was dragging on the ground. Pulled over on an off-ramp and found the spring had ripped through the cross-piece of the stand. After looking around for a few minutes for something to tie it up with, and noticed a bunch off zip-ties on the traffic signs at the light (probably left over from 'Garage Sale' posters). Broke a half dozen off the signs and tied up both sides of the stand. When I got home, the stand was in two pieces. Glad I tied up both sides!

The new item from Andover Norton seems to have a much thicker cross-piece, and the whole stand feels maybe a half pound heavier. Not cheaply made, and not cheap, either.

New item for the tool pouch - a handful of zip-ties!

swooshdave · Apr 13, 2010

BillT said:
The new item from Andover Norton seems to have a much thicker cross-piece, and the whole stand feels maybe a half pound heavier. Not cheaply made, and not cheap, either.

Mind measuring the hole diameters? Both on the cradle and stand. And also the bushings/spacers. Pics of bushings/spacers would be great!

BillT · Apr 13, 2010

swooshdave said:
BillT said:

The new item from Andover Norton seems to have a much thicker cross-piece, and the whole stand feels maybe a half pound heavier. Not cheaply made, and not cheap, either.

Click to expand...

Mind measuring the hole diameters? Both on the cradle and stand. And also the bushings/spacers. Pics of bushings/spacers would be great!

The hole in the cradle is 11/16". The bushing is a stepped piece, with the larger diameter fitting into the stand, and the smaller diameter fitting into the cradle. I don't have it out, but I would guess the smaller diameter on the bush is 9/16", with the bolt 7/16" overall length of each bush is just thicker than the cradle and stand.

Different than the diagram in my parts book (Group 13), I have a washer on both sides, and I run both nuts on the inside of the cradle (nylock). So each side is bolt (5/8" head), washer, bushing, washer, nylock nut (11/16").

BTW, wall thickness of my broken tube is .08"

swooshdave · Apr 13, 2010

Center Stand (late)

Center Stand Cradle hole (72)

72 Center Stand Bushing

Side Stand (late)

Side Stand Frame hole (72)

72 Side Stand Bushing