Case of the welded case

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Feb 21, 2012
Messages
90
Country flag
Hi everyone,

It´s been a Long time since my last post, but I have bought a 850 frame that I intend to garnish with some remaining parts of my last build.

My engine crankcases had cracks on the drive side bearing slot, and I have weld these to get this :

Case of the welded case


Case of the welded case


Did it bearing in place, cases bolted together, Still usable do you think ?

Cheers

Xavier
 
Very good robust layered alu bead laid down in dang good circle to see. Dressed back should solve fractures but may not hold bearing well at running temp and may have need blacksmithing beating if distortion prevents good seam sealing. How was bearing retained with that level of heat expansion swelling bore to beat the band?
 
How would you propose to hold that new bearing in place ? Looks pretty chewed out to me. :|
 
Well, even with heating, the bearing was hard to remove and I had to use the "stick weld trick" to extract it, so I guess it won't move at operating temp.
I don't get what you see as chewed. On the inner side there are some small pitings on the side wall, but nothing on the bearing housing.
 
Typically, welding like that will actually make the bearing fit tighter, if it's done with the bearing race already removed. I've never tried doing it with the race in place, so your result could be different. If you weld it like that without the bearing race installed, the weld bead will shrink as it cools, and reduce the diameter of the bore in the case. With more extensive welding, I've had it tighten up so much that I had to clean it up in the mill with a boring bar, just to be able to install the race. It sounds like you've got a similar effect, but maybe a little less because you still had the race installed. If you still have to heat the case and chill the race to install it, it's probably fine. If it was mine, I'd go ahead and use it for a street bike engine. If it was for a race bike, I'd probably either find replacement cases, or weld some reinforcing plates and gussets to the case. No matter what you do, if you put a lot of mileage on it, or hammer it really hard on a regular basis, the bearing fit will eventually get looser. But it will probably still run just fine that way. My experience with race engines with stock cases has been that the only way to keep the bearing race from eventually turning is to pin it in place, but that's probably unnecessary for a road bike. The Maney cases seem to hold their fit a lot better, probably because they are cast in a higher tensile strength alloy, and are thicker in the main bearing area.

Ken
 
If you pin it, use recessed head machine allen screws (tapered head) Position the screw holes such that only a tiny portion at the very top of the screw head protrudes into the space occupied by the bearing outer race. Use a Dremel tool or equivalent to grind the small crescent shaped recesses into the outer perimeter of the outer race.
Use blueing to make sure the recesses have a slight clearance from the screw head. You do not want the screw head to tighten down on the bearing race, this could distort it. Instead, the screw head tightens down on the aluminum crankcase with just a couple thou or so between it and the outer race. If the outer race moves at all, either to turn or to move out of it's pocket, it will immediately contact the scet screws, which will prevent any movement other than that allowed by the tiny ground in clearance.
Use threadlocker on the setscrews.
Glen

Case of the welded case
 
Looks good so far. What I would be concerned about is diameters and concentricity. Telescoping gages and a micrometer will tell if its close or out of whack. My other concern is the seal bore as it looks like it got more weld on one side. With that much welding my bet is it needs some mill work.
 
I' wonder if a notch ground in race and bore then a pin-peg dropped in that over laps seam to be held in place with JBW or even hi enough temp melt solder.
 
Thanks a lot for these inputs.

Now, imagine my situation, I had in mind to rebuild this engine and found out that :
- using these welded cases might not be so easy,
- crankshaft has been reground to maximum WITHOUT the good radius,
- barrels are bored at +0,60
- conrods are mismatched
- exhaust threads are a mess....

And I found a complete combat engine on the internet.....

Arrrrg temptation is huge given that it would cost very much less !

Regards
 
i would get the combat motor they are not as bad as some people say and the more norton parts the merrier in my book!,,,,,,,,,,,,,baz
 
I would say that combat or not it's still a 750 without the benefit of the thru bolts from the head to the cases of the 850 that you have. If the crank is toast spend the money on a maney crank or other instead of the combat.....but that's just my 2 cents. I think JS motorsports is offering a one piece crank now too, but ......
 
Fact is that this 850 is worn out and we can consider only camshaft and head are still okay ( but need work on the head). Is it worth putting brand new crank on these cases ?

The 750 engine has new pistons, is ready to run. For the time being it's the cheapest alternative at 3000€... Whereas 850 with "new" would fetch 5000+

Not an easy one
 
So, you're pistons, barrels, crank, rods, and cases are all shot...

Those are the exact parts included in the Steve Maney 1007cc kit...

Just sayin' !!
 
Xpongebob said:
Fact is that this 850 is worn out and we can consider only camshaft and head are still okay ( but need work on the head). Is it worth putting brand new crank on these cases ?

The 750 engine has new pistons, is ready to run. For the time being it's the cheapest alternative at 3000€... Whereas 850 with "new" would fetch 5000+

Not an easy one

If the new crank doesn't resolve the engine's issues, and the cases are still an issue you will still have a new crank ;)
850 Barrels can be re-sleeved or taken out to 920.
The 750 engine 'sounds' good, provided it's accurately described.

Combats are a fantastic engine once sorted - but they do need sorting.

All of the above cost money, but I don't think you'll be losing much whichever way you go.
 
Well, another thing is that a 850 frame with a 750 engine is worth nothing, isn't it ?

I already got an 850 Maney engine ! Need to try something else :wink:
 
Xpongebob said:
Well, another thing is that a 850 frame with a 750 engine is worth nothing, isn't it ?

I already got an 850 Maney engine ! Need to try something else :wink:
ok if its worth nothing when finished with a 750 engine and 850 frame i'll take it off your hands!!!!! ,,,,,,,,,baz
 
Xpongebob said:
Thanks a lot for these inputs.

Now, imagine my situation, I had in mind to rebuild this engine and found out that :
- using these welded cases might not be so easy,
- crankshaft has been reground to maximum WITHOUT the good radius,
- barrels are bored at +0,60
- conrods are mismatched
- exhaust threads are a mess....

And I found a complete combat engine on the internet.....

Arrrrg temptation is huge given that it would cost very much less !

Regards

You could end up with two engines that require a lot of work and a grip of money? Maybe hold out for another 850 engine to replace the one you have. Only recently a whole unit was for sale before being parted out. Might still have the crankshaft... beautiful-850-commando-motor-parts-for-auction-sunday-t21009-15.html#p276979
 
3000€ seems like a lot of €'s to me, but hey like you said , you've already got a Maney, so why not :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top