Carbed 961

If I have a bike with ECU and Fuel injection which users were locked out from I would substitute it for one of these

https://secu-3.org/secu-3i-ems-unit/?lang=en

I use the simpler 3T

https://secu-3.org/blok-secu-3t-s-dad/?lang=en

just for programmable timing, it can do the same as the 3I but you have to add the ignition drivers etc yourself whereas its already setup in the 3i

The firmware is regularly updated and open source if you want to change it yourself but the developer is open to changes such as allowing user definable temperature ranges for the temp sensor, I asked for this for air cooled motors using oil temp not water temp to adjust the advance curve and he took 2 weeks to change the firmware. He has recently increased the range for setting the number of teeth on the crank for timing sensing to allow more engine models to be covered.

The android app is not supported very well, so expect to have to use a laptop with bluetooth to modify the timing and injection maps, as it caters for dual fuel petrol/LPG cars with 2 maps needed you can swop between these 2 maps on the fly using a simple switch.

Compact ignition controller. Designed and intended for controlling ignition, idle cut off valve, starter blocking and other engine actuators. Outputs CAN freely Used for Different functions The, for example to the connect stepper motor control unit (automatic torque choke control), fuel pump relay etc. SECU-3 Lite is a cost-effective and flexible solution for your engine.

  • 1,2,3,4,5,6,8 cylinder engines.
  • 2 ignition channels (coil drivers are embedded in the unit). Ignition coils should be connected directly to the unit.
  • Wasted spark configuration for 2 or 4 cylinder engines, for engines with larger number of cylinders you should use distributor.
  • Output for controlling the idle cut-off valve (can be remapped for other functions)
  • Output for controlling the starter relay (can be remapped for other functions)
  • All outputs have over current, over voltage and over temperature protection
  • Input for TPS or for simple throttle limit switch
  • Input for switching between two sets of maps (for instance petrol / gas)
  • Embedded 2.5 bar MAP sensor
  • Input for coolant temperature sensor (REF_S2 pin on the external connector is used)
  • Synchronization options: Hall effect sensor, 1 CKP VR sensor with missing tooth wheel, 2 CKP VR sensors with non-missing tooth wheel
  • USB interface with digital insulation
  • Editing of maps and settings of the unit in the real time!
 
The Norton 961 has 38mm throttle bodies .

Does it?
This article claims the Domiracer version has 35 mm throttle bodies

"Though the engine is completely unmodified internally, it actually makes 3kW more power than in Commando guise, says Skinner, not only because of the open meggas, but also thanks to the 1.5-litre bigger airbox and the 35mm throttle bodies’ 20mm shorter velocity stacks"
 
That’s about 4bhp isn’t it?

It’s better than nothing of course, but it’s hardly earth shattering and frankly, I suspect that most of us would be hard pushed to really notice it.

It makes the stock airbox better than I would have thought to be honest.

It also make me think that hacking extra filters into the stock airbox might require a braver owner than me!
 
Here is one of the air box eliminators for the 1200 Thruxton. Its just a matter of sales quantity . If there were enough Norton 961's around somebody would make the kits !

That’s one heck of an ugly ‘upgrade’!

It’s not really an airbox ‘eliminator’ either is it? It’s just bent hoses avoiding the airbox. Surely it’s correct title should be ‘airbox avoider’ ?!
 
Does it?
This article claims the Domiracer version has 35 mm throttle bodies

"Though the engine is completely unmodified internally, it actually makes 3kW more power than in Commando guise, says Skinner, not only because of the open meggas, but also thanks to the 1.5-litre bigger airbox and the 35mm throttle bodies’ 20mm shorter velocity stacks"

Commando throttle bodies are 38mm.
Maybe if a Domi owner can check him manual we can be sure.

Carbed 961
Hosted on Fotki
 
I have seen Norton manuals referenced several times, are these readily available from the factory? Price?
 
Yes they are. At £90.00 however, they’re not a cheap read.

I’m one of those who can’t own a bike and not have the manual tho!
 
Throttle Body 961 all variants

Norton Throttle Body 38mm

From Work shop manual .
 
Someone needs to let Simon Skinner know!:D

Or, more likely, the journo got it wrong.
 
True, when they are working properly.
But since the fi ECU's are locked by the manufacturer, a carb setup will at least allow tuning.
Plus I would think a 39mm flatslide carb will flow much better than a 36mm throttle body with a butterfly valve stuck in its throat.

Hello BritTwit

I’m interested in fixing a single carburetor (maybe a 40mm FCR... I’m more interested in low-rpm responsive engine than high-rpm power) on my 2013 961 Sport... I just found this on the web...





Looks like we’re not the only ones thinking about it...

(It seems to me that in these photos we also find 952 parts...)



(Sorry for my rough English)

A big greeting from the Côte d'Azur !
 
Hello BritTwit

I’m interested in fixing a single carburetor (maybe a 40mm FCR... I’m more interested in low-rpm responsive engine than high-rpm power) on my 2013 961 Sport... I just found this on the web...





Looks like we’re not the only ones thinking about it...

(It seems to me that in these photos we also find 952 parts...)



(Sorry for my rough English)

A big greeting from the Côte d'Azur !


So Jean-Mi,
Yeah, looks like someone has come up with intake manifolds to mount FCR's to a 961.
That's a good start.

Carbed 961


Looks like a treasure trove of 961 parts as well.
Where did you find the photos?
Do you know who the parts belong to?
 
If I remember correctly did someone try this on a modern bonnie 3 or 4 years ago.
The result from what I can remember is more power and better economy.
 
The engine above could be an original carbureted version, not a conversion. But maybe not. Lots more pictures of the carbureted 961 "Swindler" from Redmax in the UK here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/redmaxspeedshop/albums/72157629570459343/with/8496371914/

I saw a similar, but smaller collection of parts at the Norton rally in Oregon in 2014. They were owned by an enthusiast named Doug Towsley, who bought a combination of parts left over from the Kenny Dreer American effort and some that were acquired from a supplier, who was selling them because they were never paid for. I talked to Doug a couple of times, and he gave me all the details, but I've forgotten most of them. I was kind of tempted to buy the engine and frame at the time, and try to put together a bike, but didn't. Doug was very knowledgeable about the history and design details of the bikes, and very helpful in providing all sorts of details. I should have taken notes. He had all sorts of parts, drawings and documentation, and at least a couple of engines for sale. I took these pictures at the rally.

Carbed 961


Carbed 961


Ken
 
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The engine above could be an original carbureted version, not a conversion. But maybe not. Lots more pictures of the carbureted 961 "Swindler" from Redmax in the UK here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/redmaxspeedshop/albums/72157629570459343/with/8496371914/

I saw a similar, but smaller collection of parts at the Norton rally in Oregon in 2014. They were owned by an enthusiast named Doug (last name Towsley, I think) who bought a combination of parts left over from the Kenny Dreer American effort and some that were acquired from that were sold off by a supplier, supposedly because they were never paid for. I talked to Doug a couple of times, and he gave me all the details, but I've forgotten most of them. I was kind of tempted to buy the engine and frame at the time, and try to put together a bike, but didn't. Doug was very knowledgeable about the history and design details of the bikes, and very helpful in providing all sorts of details. I should have taken notes. He had all sorts of parts, drawings and documentation, and at least a couple of engines for sale. I took these pictures at the rally.

View attachment 13675

View attachment 13676

Ken

You're probably right.
I'd love to get a few photos of the FCR brackets, and the intake manifolds, and maybe get some dimensions.
The 952 parts would be interesting too.
The 952 had a gear drive for the cams, and the gear shift shaft was located below and behind the clutch.
Would be nice to spy that arrangement to see how Dreer made it work.
 
That’s about 4bhp isn’t it?

It’s better than nothing of course, but it’s hardly earth shattering and frankly, I suspect that most of us would be hard pushed to really notice it.

It makes the stock airbox better than I would have thought to be honest.

It also make me think that hacking extra filters into the stock airbox might require a braver owner than me!
As you know I have a 16 Commando SF and a 17 Dominator naked.
The Commando has a cat delete x pipe and short Motad mufflers, tune and Bosch coil, iridium plugs and leads.
The Dominator has open megaphones, tune and the same Bosch coil, iridium plugs and leads.
Both bikes run the exact same fuel.

I’m not sure if it’s the riding position, louder exhaust or both, but the domi feels noticeable faster. It most likely is a placebo effect.
But the domi most definitely is more noticeable by others as I ride into town.

I love the fact that the open megaphones scare women and children into fury, and the older guys give thumbs up everytime.
Hail to the megaphones.
 
If I remember correctly did someone try this on a modern bonnie 3 or 4 years ago.
The result from what I can remember is more power and better economy.


Madnorton

With a 39 or 40 mm mono-carburetor and a fairly long intake pipe it would be both smooth and powerful – as we like almost all – between 1000 and 4500 rpm...


And that wouldn’t make it a docile Triumph !


I already did this 40 years ago on my 650ss (still alive), with only one of its original 28 mm Amal monobloc. I just had to change jet and needle ... On a mountain road, it's still clearly faster than my 961 and its stupid euro 3 (my 2013) or euro 5 (currently) standards... And with only 4 litres of gas/100 km... Driving mostly below 5000 rpm, the 650SS engine is unkillable...


Where is the progress ?... Not in engine performance, anyway ! And so, not in environmental standards...

Ecological standards are not environmentally friendly... They are just a business for builders and a good cheap conscience for politicians...
 
I’m not sure if it’s the riding position, louder exhaust or both, but the domi feels noticeable faster. It most likely is a placebo effect.
But the domi most definitely is more noticeable by others as I ride into town.

It's possible that fueling on your Domi is slightly different than the commando, and that provides a better throttle response.
Also, the Domi chassis geometry is different from the Commando's, and that can improve the handling.
All together this may actually manifest itself in noticably better performance.
I love the fact that the open megaphones scare women and children into fury, and the older guys give thumbs up everytime.
Hail to the megaphones.

Hooligan!:p
 
As you know I have a 16 Commando SF and a 17 Dominator naked.
The Commando has a cat delete x pipe and short Motad mufflers, tune and Bosch coil, iridium plugs and leads.
The Dominator has open megaphones, tune and the same Bosch coil, iridium plugs and leads.
Both bikes run the exact same fuel.

I’m not sure if it’s the riding position, louder exhaust or both, but the domi feels noticeable faster. It most likely is a placebo effect.
But the domi most definitely is more noticeable by others as I ride into town.

I love the fact that the open megaphones scare women and children into fury, and the older guys give thumbs up everytime.
Hail to the megaphones.
As I recall from my dealer, there were three ECU maps available for Norton dealers: (1) Stock, (2) 961 with catalyst bypass pipe + short factory exhaust, (3) Dominator with catalyst bypass pipe + megaphones.
 
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