Camtrain klatter

For want of a better word tappet rattle, its not a big concern thats for sure but anything to make our engines quieter is a plus, John Roberts new cam follower I'm sure will be a blessing for many.
I had and I'm sure others as well have developed their own "fix" , and some would suggest just put up with the klatter, well everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I had developed my own "fix" and now after some testing will be making my remedy available to the masses.
It may appear a simple "fix" but much effort has gone in to this development to perfect it.
IF you think by sqeezing in a spring between lifter and pushrod will do the trick then go ahead, without modifying the lifter damage to your engine is guaranteed.
Modification to pushrods and lifters is required apart from the specially made spring.
I considered an exchange basis of lifters and pushrods but I expect people would be sending me junk lifters and pushrods and expecting new ones in return, so it would be a case of me modifying your parts.
Now, for the effectiveness of this mod, you can do your own test now,
(1) start your engine and listen specifically for tappet/camfollower rattle, even using the screwdriver in ear
method at your cam follower tunnel and tappet covers.
(2) stop your engine, adjust your tappets to zero clearance and restart the engine and again check
noise level.
this is how your engine will sound with the modification.
Of course this is only practical on engine rebuilds , or have a set modified ready for the next rebuild.
Cost ? send me your lifters and push rods and for $100 I'll Fedex them back to you modified and ready to fit.

The fundamentalism here is perfect; simple is usually the best solution.

My concern would be if the spring(s) give up before the next top end re-do. Any sense of the relibility factor with these springs?

Bill.

Thanks for asking Bill, immediately upon looking at my mod it may appear to some that the spring is compressing all the time like a valve spring, but in fact the travel is only as much as your tappet clearance
The spring is constantly compressed with 1.5 lbs load when fitted but in operation only compresses .006" or so .
hope this answers your question.

Pretty ingenious.

Simple is best, if effective; looks like it would be.

similar conversions were (are) available fot HD Shovelheads converting from hydraulic to solid lifters,
not new technology, just applied elsewhere,

may be a stupid question. But I thought the tappet clearance had 2 purposes:
- ensure valves will still close when engine is at running temperature , allowing for different expasion of valves, cylinders and pushrods
- allow the cam to be lubrificated by ensuring that cams and cam followers will be separated at a point in the cycle.

. I'm wandering if cam lubrification ( already an Achill heel of the Norton motor) could suffer of having the cam and cam follower always in contact?

Your clearance setting is the same so expansion is catered for in the same way, the spring just takes up the clearance and the preload of 1.5lbs per inch plus what an 6 thou of movement gives will not break the oil film.

Educational modification for me to see but !!!
Oh my word I can hardly imagine the frustrating fiddle to get the spring around both lifter boss and rod ball deep down in tight tunnels, at least for me.

An old hot rod valve lash adjusting method is to warm up engine and adjust the lash till quiet just short of binding. They make oil splash sheilds to put on old chevy's rockers when the valve covers off and running just for this purpose.

Too bad magnetic material couldn't be used with same polarity repulsing.

Steve, the spring is attached to the lifter, assemble as normal, when lowering the pushrod it will automatically
fall or centralize in the spring, Assembly is the same.

Ok self centering for your kind maybe but maybe not for me with short attention and shorter temper. We all await video of the dulled down klatter. Truly though the hardest thing for me to endure on rides is ignoring what sounds like blacksmiths beating insides out, sometimes all day long and back.

Steve, there is absolutely no difference in fitting a modified lifter with spring attached than fitting standard lifters, this goes for the pushrods also.actually the modified pushrods line up easier with the modified lifters.
when dropping the pushrods down the tunnel they automatically line up with the lifter thanks to the spring and
lead or chamfer on the pushrod spring collar.

Put me down for a set. Do they come in stainless?

Just out of curiosity, does anybody know if they ever published any drawings of the 961 engine? It's supposed to have hydraulic lifters and it would be interesting to see how they handled it. Probably knot as good as these though.

Donald , Is the spring strong enough? at 3000 rpm? Have you tested them at that rpm? [camshaft speed]

madass140 said:

For want of a better word tappet rattle, its not a big concern thats for sure but anything to make our engines quieter is a plus, John Roberts new cam follower I'm sure will be a blessing for many.
I had and I'm sure others as well have developed their own "fix" , and some would suggest just put up with the klatter, well everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I had developed my own "fix" and now after some testing will be making my remedy available to the masses.
It may appear a simple "fix" but much effort has gone in to this development to perfect it.
IF you think by sqeezing in a spring between lifter and pushrod will do the trick then go ahead, without modifying the lifter damage to your engine is guaranteed.
Modification to pushrods and lifters is required apart from the specially made spring.
I considered an exchange basis of lifters and pushrods but I expect people would be sending me junk lifters and pushrods and expecting new ones in return, so it would be a case of me modifying your parts.
Now, for the effectiveness of this mod, you can do your own test now,
(1) start your engine and listen specifically for tappet/camfollower rattle, even using the screwdriver in ear
method at your cam follower tunnel and tappet covers.
(2) stop your engine, adjust your tappets to zero clearance and restart the engine and again check
noise level.
this is how your engine will sound with the modification.
Of course this is only practical on engine rebuilds , or have a set modified ready for the next rebuild.
Cost ? send me your lifters and push rods and for $100 I'll Fedex them back to you modified and ready to fit.

Click to expand...

Yes John, enough spring pressure is needed to eliminate rattle at high RPM but any excess pressure is pointless
and would only enhance wear.

Donald, the problem with this design is when the head is lifted the push rods are removed, this will pull the spring off the push rod end? then when the push rods are replaced the push rod must locate on to the "wobbly" spring , as stock pushrods can be tricky just to locate them in the standard cup...well getting them onto the spring could be tricky.
I have considered this design ..but remembering how awarkward replacing push rods is....how often have i seen the ridge on the ball end where the ball as sat on the follower cup edge.......just a thought.

rpatton said:

Put me down for a set. Do they come in stainless?

Just out of curiosity, does anybody know if they ever published any drawings of the 961 engine? It's supposed to have hydraulic lifters and it would be interesting to see how they handled it. Probably knot as good as these though.

Click to expand...

They have not been published. Drawings for the Dreer prototypes exist which should be the same. I have not studied them for the lifter mechanism.

John, that is not correct at all, on reassembly the pushrod has no where else to go but enter the spring and then the cup of the lifter, unlike a standard set up its not possible to misalign the pushrod and lifter.

Maddass knows his stuff so must take his word for the ease of install - again and again - but I'll have to wait and see what some real Norton mechanics say as they get to enjoy them first. Head installs almost always get the best of my neck strain and emotional reserves, so could be a win win innovation to purr along a long time.

April fools days been