Brakes, old vrs new

As I am new to the website, please advise if there are certain ways to post things, or structure them.
I am contemplating resleeveing my current M/C on my 1973 850 Commando for better braking, or to for-go the stock appearance and add a new Brembo M/C. The new Brembo I believe will be a great upgrade, but, will have to add a new turn signal system and the stock Lockheed will be gone. Has anyone had the resleeving done and is it better, great, or did they wish they had gone to an aftermarket one, such as I'm contemplating. Which then takes me to the next step, as to a new caliper and rotor question.
Has anyone installed or had installed a New system such as the Brembo or Clubman, would certainly appreciate anyones input or suggestions. Thanks norton1973

Mine was resleaved and had a steel braided line installed just before I got the bike, I don't know what company the parts were sourced from so I cant help you there but it is a big improvment from the wood handle feel. I can't say it brings it up to modern quality but it does have a stronger more progressive feel. To be honest though at some point I think I will upgrade to a better set up.

I have done both. The resleeve, available from several sources, is a major improvement over oem. The Brembo MC (I got mine from Colo Norton works) is another order of magnitude better. At minimum, do the resleeve. As you noted, the Brembo means you have to change the switching at least on that side. In my case, I changed to the Brembo MC and a matching Magura lever for the clutch. I changed from the oem switching to the switch units from CNW on both sides - I believe they are Honda units. - but I just ordered all the parts at the same time from CNW. Braided steel line is appropriate and an improvement either way.

norton1973 said:

As I am new to the website, please advise if there are certain ways to post things, or structure them.

Click to expand...

Search first, ask questions second. Not that this always what I do, but I try. :mrgreen:

The most important thing to consider when selecting front disc brake components is the ratio of caliper to master cylinder area. See chart.

I bought the front and rear brake (I have a MarkIII) replacement systems this fall from Colorado Norton Works. The absolute best engineered alternative in my opinion. High quality all around and direct support from CNW at all times of day and weekends as you are installing the system(s). While at first glance it appears expensive, it really isn't.

http://www.coloradonortonworks.com/

When I did the rebuild on my '73 Commando 750, I had the master cylinder sleeved (Rocky Point Cycle), rebuilt the caliper myself (using stainless pistons), installed braided stainless brake line, switched to DOT 5 brake fluid (controversial, see thread on this site), and installed new pads. The results were a much improved front brake while retaining the look of the original. I intend to do exactly the same thing on my next rebuild, a '74 Commando 850. Good luck!
Tim

One thing to consider...

If you go with the brembo M/C you can always move the original lucas turn signal cluster to the left side and then get rid of the other. It is interchangable.

Also, you can just swap out the M/C and continue to use the Lockheed. I bought the brembo then rebuilt the Lockheed with stainless. Huge upgrade in braking.

I'm using a Gremica 2 piston 41mm caliper with a 12" floating disc and Gremica 11mm master cylinder . This gives me a ratio of 27.78, which is very close to the sweet spot Michael Morris of Vintage Brake recommends. I now have a front brake that's nearly as good as my dual Brembo setup on my BMW K75.

I re-sleeved the original master cylinder to 13 mm and it made a big difference. However, I inherited from the previous owner a 12 inch floating disc and Lockheed caliper from the same firm that supplied the re-sleeving kit: RGM in Cumbria, England. Two years on, I still think it is a good brake. It also allows me to use the original switchgear. On the other hand, I would not argue against a Brembo conversion. Once you've upgraded your brake, you may then want to upgrade your suspension to deal with the extra braking force you will then have!

Let us know how you get on.

norton1973, I posted a question earlier in the day and received some very interesting ideas. On one reply, the message suggested you adhere to a chart, relating to Front M/C to Wheel cylinder Ratio's. I'm just starting to explore the many avenues available. The chart gives the various master cylinders in mm's, it seems the most commom is 12 or 13mm, However, I don't see many calipers that list a mm measurement. The ideal referenced in the article 23-1 and 27-1. Does anyone have any suggestions that may suit the chart, as being the ideal. So far Brembo seems to be the front runner of choice. Several people have mentioned the Colorado Norton website with favorable reviews. Does their system adhere to the ratio chart, or any other combinations. ( Brand name appreciated) Any suggestions Thanks

I've done most of the work on my 73 850 myself but did farm out the front brake to Fred Eaton at Old Britts. Resleeved and rebuilt MC, S/S line, blanchard ground and drilled disc, and new pads. Went from a Flintstones bike (drag your feet, cause that's all that's stopping you) to a fantastic 2-finger stopper. About $750. Well worth it.

I rode around before this and almost killed myself a couple times when a panic stop was necessary (but not possible). So I think the investment is worthwhile, unless you're looking for a great ROI on those life insurance premiums...

Hi Nort,
you dont say which country you live in.
I have a jap MC on my 750 at the moment while i'm getting the original sorted with the reduced bore.
RGM in Cumbria, UK do the conversion if you live here.
Also I have the 13" Novil Disc & Lockhead racing caliper which is ugly but a lot better than the standard 10.25" disc.
I would also reccomend getting the longer lever to fit the standard Norton MC if you are retaining that MC. It gives you better leverage & improves braking. I would say improving your brake for better stopping is more important than keeping the bike looking standard.
What use is a standaed set up if you've hit someone up the arse because your brakes were hopeless & trashed your bike & yourself.
Best of luck, Don

Andover Norton offer a conversion kit that retains the original switchgear, with a small-bore Grimeca master cylinder. See their "accessories" page.

Hias anyone tried using a sleeved (13mm) stock M/C with a Brembo caliper and rotor? Just looking for a way to keep the stock look and also not to have to change the switchgear around.

Assuming the levers have the same mechanical advantage, the results will be nearly the same if the Brembo master is 13mm. If you are hooking up with 41mm 2 piston caliper you'd get better results with a smaller master cylinder, a 12mm or 11mm.

I wouldnt bother over-sciencing this. The sleeved oem cylinder with oem front disk and SS brake line) works quite well - mine would lock up the front wheel if you wanted it to. Swapping the sleeved oem for the Brembo MC gives an even stronger brake and with better feel. As far as preserving the stock look, IMHO, the MC to the Brembo change is much less of an overall bike appearance revision than changing the front disc/brake but I guess that's a matter of opinion. I also was concerned about the switchgear change "look" but I have to admit I prefer it because it looks much cleaner than oem Norton. And, back in the day, had it been available, I would have put something similar on my '71 Commando - of course, it had drum brakes!

I think sometimes we over-do the originality thing. I try to look at this stuff like, "what would I have done/did I do to a bike like this originally." It's like Muscle cars...folks are trying to find, and pay a lot of money for a totally original (for example) 1968 Plymouth Road Runner. BUT the reality is that NOBODY that really drove these kinds of cars left them stock. I can't think of anyone (especially me) who bought a Muscle car and didn't modify it within weeks of buying it. I bought a '71 440 Barracuda that year, drove it 36 miles home from the dealer, pulled the engine and put 12:1 pistons/cam/headers, etc in it! I like keeping the bike as oem looking as possible but will make changes if I like them. But unlike the old days, I keep all the oem parts so things can be changed back to oem without any issues. Back then we just tossed the removed factory parts in the trash can.

As far as how good a braking system you need, it can only be as good as your front tire. With an oem 4.10/19 the Brembo MC with SS line will easily provide you with maximum braking possible. So I don't see any point in adding additional "stopping power" in the way of different front disc(s) unless you go to a wider, stickier tire that can provide the grip to go with it. THough I will admit the dual front Brembos look really cool and if I was doing a Cafe bike I would probably buy a set.

Mike,

If the sleeved original master and a Brembo master are the same size, how does the Brembo perform better? I've never tried either, just asking.

Jim,

I don't know if they are the same size or not or if there is any other difference in design that accounts for the different performance. They do feel decidedly different with the Brembo feeling (and looking) essentially the same as my 996 Ducati which could definitely STOP! So I can't really say why they are different - maybe as you noted, a different brake lever on the oem might provide the same feel? I never looked into that at all.

I think some have assumed a certain brand of brake component will outperform another. In reality, it's size that matters. The Brembo may have less flex than the others and maybe dissipate heat better, but those two are probably not critical to most street riding.