Fifties era Mercury outboards ran backwards for reversing direction. When the throttle lever was placed in reverse, the engine stopped and the distributor moved a good bunch, maybe like 90°. The motor was then restarted, running backwards. A guy I know bought one and couldn't figure out why the motor killed every time he put it in reverse. To this day he still thinks there was something wrong with the outboard.
Boyer Ignition Vs. Tri Spark?
- Thread starter teddy boy
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ntst8 wrote;
In the mid 1970s, my friend and I were on our pride and joys (meaning clapped out and ill maintained machinery.....I was only 18 Y.O. at the time) queuing in traffic. I was on a TriBsa 650, and my friend on a BSA Bantam D7. His Bantam stalled, and so he kickstarted it back into life. When the lights changed, my TriBsa set off in an expected forwards direction, and much to my friends surprise, his Bantam set off in reverse and only just avoided causing damage to the vehicle behind us. When he had re-started the engine, the engine for some reason had rotated in reverse. The look of surprise on his face was a picture which I will never forget. :lol:
In the mid 1970s, my friend and I were on our pride and joys (meaning clapped out and ill maintained machinery.....I was only 18 Y.O. at the time) queuing in traffic. I was on a TriBsa 650, and my friend on a BSA Bantam D7. His Bantam stalled, and so he kickstarted it back into life. When the lights changed, my TriBsa set off in an expected forwards direction, and much to my friends surprise, his Bantam set off in reverse and only just avoided causing damage to the vehicle behind us. When he had re-started the engine, the engine for some reason had rotated in reverse. The look of surprise on his face was a picture which I will never forget. :lol:
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A two stroke doesn't realy mind which way the crank turns as long as the piston is going up and down. Reverse running is usually caused by retarded ignition.
I'm sure a German two stroke flat twin combination used in the war had a reverse start mechanism rather than a reverse gear.
No joke Chris, he would just switch on the ignition and sometimes that old C11G would just start up, we were all gob-smacked.
Cash
I'm sure a German two stroke flat twin combination used in the war had a reverse start mechanism rather than a reverse gear.
No joke Chris, he would just switch on the ignition and sometimes that old C11G would just start up, we were all gob-smacked.
Cash
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- May 22, 2005
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- 33
A friend of mine had a Bond mini car fitted with a Villiers 250 two stroke motorcycle engine that had no reverse gear.
As standard it was fitted with a dyno-start electric starter that was specially designed to start the engine in either direction, if you turned the ignition key forwards (clockwise) the engine would start and run in the normal direction, but if you turned the key backwards (anticlockwise) the engine would start in reverse.
If for example you were parked in a parking bay you’d start the engine in reverse, engage first gear to back out of the parking space.
You would then depress the clutch, switch off the engine and restart it in the normal forward direction, let up the clutch and pull away.
It was a very simple and effective idea
As standard it was fitted with a dyno-start electric starter that was specially designed to start the engine in either direction, if you turned the ignition key forwards (clockwise) the engine would start and run in the normal direction, but if you turned the key backwards (anticlockwise) the engine would start in reverse.
If for example you were parked in a parking bay you’d start the engine in reverse, engage first gear to back out of the parking space.
You would then depress the clutch, switch off the engine and restart it in the normal forward direction, let up the clutch and pull away.
It was a very simple and effective idea
Both of my Chang sidecar units have reverse fitted and the looks you get backing out of a parking space can be priceless.
I bet seeing someone ride that Yamaha backwards would be a crowd pleaser at shows. Bike do feel pretty funny backing up as the geometry is all wrong for that direction. They want to wag the forks.
I bet seeing someone ride that Yamaha backwards would be a crowd pleaser at shows. Bike do feel pretty funny backing up as the geometry is all wrong for that direction. They want to wag the forks.
Tri Spark for Commandos
Hi - I have a fair bit of experience with electronic ignition on Commandos - here's my ten-pence worth:-
1) I've had my 850 Mk2A for 20 years - fitted Boyer Analogue about 18 years ago - it worked OK.
2) Two years ago I fitted Boyer Micro-Power (with the small 'digital' coils) - it was OK but very particular about battery voltage.
3) I fitted Tri-Spark about six months later - this was the system adapted from the system built for BSA/Triumph triples (I have one fitted to my BSA Rocket 3 - it is a brilliant system) - as such it had a 'black box' and fired the two plugs sequentially (i.e. as for the original points system) - it worked very well giving a very powerful spark even with a low battery.
4) About 6 months ago I fitted the new Tri-Spark Classic Twin system - when I received the unit I was surprised (and a little concerned) that it used the 'wasted-spark' principle however upon fitting (an absolute doddle !!) the bike started first time. It always now starts first kick under all circumstances and NEVER kicks back !!.
With regard to purchase in the UK - LP Williams did sell the Tri-Spark system for Triples when they were based in Warwick (I live near Warwick) but I never saw a Twin version on display in their shop - I cannot vouch for them now they have moved to Lancashire. As stated previously Triple Cycles sold the triple version and the earlier 'black-box' twin system but I don't think Triple Cycles is trading at present. I purchased my Classic-Twin system direct from the Manufacturer in Australia (Steve Kelly) - carriage charges weren't too bad and delivery took about two weeks. If you contact Steve Kelly via their Website he will be able to advise ref suppliers etc. (he's a very helpful chap !)
HtH
Hi - I have a fair bit of experience with electronic ignition on Commandos - here's my ten-pence worth:-
1) I've had my 850 Mk2A for 20 years - fitted Boyer Analogue about 18 years ago - it worked OK.
2) Two years ago I fitted Boyer Micro-Power (with the small 'digital' coils) - it was OK but very particular about battery voltage.
3) I fitted Tri-Spark about six months later - this was the system adapted from the system built for BSA/Triumph triples (I have one fitted to my BSA Rocket 3 - it is a brilliant system) - as such it had a 'black box' and fired the two plugs sequentially (i.e. as for the original points system) - it worked very well giving a very powerful spark even with a low battery.
4) About 6 months ago I fitted the new Tri-Spark Classic Twin system - when I received the unit I was surprised (and a little concerned) that it used the 'wasted-spark' principle however upon fitting (an absolute doddle !!) the bike started first time. It always now starts first kick under all circumstances and NEVER kicks back !!.
With regard to purchase in the UK - LP Williams did sell the Tri-Spark system for Triples when they were based in Warwick (I live near Warwick) but I never saw a Twin version on display in their shop - I cannot vouch for them now they have moved to Lancashire. As stated previously Triple Cycles sold the triple version and the earlier 'black-box' twin system but I don't think Triple Cycles is trading at present. I purchased my Classic-Twin system direct from the Manufacturer in Australia (Steve Kelly) - carriage charges weren't too bad and delivery took about two weeks. If you contact Steve Kelly via their Website he will be able to advise ref suppliers etc. (he's a very helpful chap !)
HtH
Re: Tri Spark for Commandos
4) About 6 months ago I fitted the new Tri-Spark Classic Twin system - when I received the unit I was surprised (and a little concerned) that it used the 'wasted-spark' principle however upon fitting (an absolute doddle !!) the bike started first time. It always now starts first kick under all circumstances and NEVER kicks back !!.
With regard to purchase in the UK - LP Williams did sell the Tri-Spark system for Triples when they were based in Warwick (I live near Warwick) but I never saw a Twin version on display in their shop - I cannot vouch for them now they have moved to Lancashire. As stated previously Triple Cycles sold the triple version and the earlier 'black-box' twin system but I don't think Triple Cycles is trading at present. I purchased my Classic-Twin system direct from the Manufacturer in Australia (Steve Kelly) - carriage charges weren't too bad and delivery took about two weeks. If you contact Steve Kelly via their Website he will be able to advise ref suppliers etc. (he's a very helpful chap !)
HtH[/quote]
I am also looking to put in a new electronic system into my Mk3, I have read a lot of stuff on which to use, there are a lot of opinions out there!!!! At present there is a Boyer fitted, it was on when I got the bike and to be honest it looked in pretty bad nick, the conections were all corroded etc. I replaced the connections and re-wired it, on looking at the label on the black box I could just make out what I think said Mk11, so I think it is a Boyer Mk11. Ok, we all know that you cannot judge electrical stuff by its condition, but the seed of doubt was sown in my mind, 1, because of its age, & 2 its condition. Rather than take the chance of a failure I am going to change it, and I think I am going to bite the bullet and buy the Tri-Spark Classic Twin, ok it's a bit expensive but it seems to tick all the boxes re, tick over, ease of fitment, compact, starting on lower voltages and most of all it seems well made.
I contacted Williams here in the UK but they have been closed from before Christmas and do not open again until Jan 12th, I will wait until then to see if they stock the "Classic Twin", if not I will deal direct with Tri-Spark. I did look at the Pazon and Sparx systems, the Pazon looked not too bad with people giving mixed reviews, but there was not much info on the Sparx system. I have had Boyer before and and have one fitted on my A65 L/C they seemed ok but with the kick back issues reported on the Commando and me having a Mk3 Commando with the big black cylinder thing between the barrels and airbox... oh aye the Electric Start!.... I thought I would try the Tri-Spark.
Cheers
Robert
4) About 6 months ago I fitted the new Tri-Spark Classic Twin system - when I received the unit I was surprised (and a little concerned) that it used the 'wasted-spark' principle however upon fitting (an absolute doddle !!) the bike started first time. It always now starts first kick under all circumstances and NEVER kicks back !!.
With regard to purchase in the UK - LP Williams did sell the Tri-Spark system for Triples when they were based in Warwick (I live near Warwick) but I never saw a Twin version on display in their shop - I cannot vouch for them now they have moved to Lancashire. As stated previously Triple Cycles sold the triple version and the earlier 'black-box' twin system but I don't think Triple Cycles is trading at present. I purchased my Classic-Twin system direct from the Manufacturer in Australia (Steve Kelly) - carriage charges weren't too bad and delivery took about two weeks. If you contact Steve Kelly via their Website he will be able to advise ref suppliers etc. (he's a very helpful chap !)
HtH[/quote]
I am also looking to put in a new electronic system into my Mk3, I have read a lot of stuff on which to use, there are a lot of opinions out there!!!! At present there is a Boyer fitted, it was on when I got the bike and to be honest it looked in pretty bad nick, the conections were all corroded etc. I replaced the connections and re-wired it, on looking at the label on the black box I could just make out what I think said Mk11, so I think it is a Boyer Mk11. Ok, we all know that you cannot judge electrical stuff by its condition, but the seed of doubt was sown in my mind, 1, because of its age, & 2 its condition. Rather than take the chance of a failure I am going to change it, and I think I am going to bite the bullet and buy the Tri-Spark Classic Twin, ok it's a bit expensive but it seems to tick all the boxes re, tick over, ease of fitment, compact, starting on lower voltages and most of all it seems well made.
I contacted Williams here in the UK but they have been closed from before Christmas and do not open again until Jan 12th, I will wait until then to see if they stock the "Classic Twin", if not I will deal direct with Tri-Spark. I did look at the Pazon and Sparx systems, the Pazon looked not too bad with people giving mixed reviews, but there was not much info on the Sparx system. I have had Boyer before and and have one fitted on my A65 L/C they seemed ok but with the kick back issues reported on the Commando and me having a Mk3 Commando with the big black cylinder thing between the barrels and airbox... oh aye the Electric Start!.... I thought I would try the Tri-Spark.
Cheers
Robert
Wasted spark may be more common than one would think. At least all the early Goldwings used it and a number of BMW models I understand.
On Goldwings it works fine and commonly does up to 150,000 miles, it would not be turning that mileage in if there was something to be concerned about.
On Goldwings it works fine and commonly does up to 150,000 miles, it would not be turning that mileage in if there was something to be concerned about.
Boyer Ignition versus Tri-Spark
I recently upgraded my 1973 Commando 750 to Tri-Spark Classic Twin ignition. The conversion was very easy following the directions from Tri-Spark. After the conversion, the bike started much easier, idled nicely at 1000 rpm, and had tons more power. The cost was about $200 US including shipping. A very nice product!
I recently upgraded my 1973 Commando 750 to Tri-Spark Classic Twin ignition. The conversion was very easy following the directions from Tri-Spark. After the conversion, the bike started much easier, idled nicely at 1000 rpm, and had tons more power. The cost was about $200 US including shipping. A very nice product!
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