Between #'s 200976 and 211110 all Combats?

Status
Not open for further replies.
auldblue said:
And to quote my ten year old daughter " it smells of motorbikes in here"
Click to expand...
:lol: :lol: :lol: That makes this whole thread worth reading! The only way it could smell better is if you burn bean oil in it.
 
Rohan said:
dynodave said:
I don't buy the published numbers.....matching # 200205
Click to expand...

Has anyone checked that number with the NOC records officer. ?
If the records exist, they can advise build date/dispatch date.

Without that info, who knows what might have happened at the factory - or even at the dealers.
Click to expand...

Hi Rohan,

Actually I do have a copy of that factory record sheet. 200205 docket number 40114, fastback, invoice 5272, shipped to Coburn & Hughes...presumably in England. Ship date 20.2.72. As no fastback was issued with combat engine....
 
The Combat was only announced in January of 1972, so that seems a little unlikely !!

Although as discussed here previously, there seem to have been stockpiles of the 1972 models already on hand,
so actual production of them must have started a few months earlier.

AND, Nortons had offered 'extra tuning' on some of their models, going back to the WW1 era at least.
You could buy your "Brooklands Road Special" and it came with a certificate saying it had done a certified 70 mph.
Which was quite a lot when you were dodging pot holes and horse poo on dirt roads....

Anyone know/quote the official development history of the 2S cam (ie Combat cam) ?
It was developed for the Combat models... ?
 
illf8ed said:
Actually I do have a copy of that factory record sheet. 200205 docket number 40114, fastback, invoice 5272, shipped to Coburn & Hughes...presumably in England. Ship date 20.2.72. As no fastback was issued with combat engine....
Click to expand...

Thanks David, thats good info.

Maybe Dynodave can comment on this.
 
Rohan said:
The Combat was only announced in January of 1972, so that seems a little unlikely !!
Click to expand...

You are thinking of production Combats though.

Rohan said:
Although as discussed here previously, there seem to have been stockpiles of the 1972 models already on hand,
so actual production of them must have started a few months earlier.
Click to expand...

We've not seen any evidence and there's nothing to suggest there was any "stockpiling" of 1972 models.
 
L.A.B. said:
Rohan said:
The Combat was only announced in January of 1972, so that seems a little unlikely !!
Click to expand...

You are thinking of production Combats though.

Rohan said:
Although as discussed here previously, there seem to have been stockpiles of the 1972 models already on hand,
so actual production of them must have started a few months earlier.
Click to expand...

We've not seen any evidence and there's nothing to suggest there was any "stockpiling" of 1972 models.
Click to expand...

There may be some evidence. My 201881 has a mfg date Dec 1971 while above 200205 shipped Feb 20, 1972. Looks like later numbers were shipping to the US and earlier numbers shipping later in the UK indicating stock piling or some other reason. My first combat 201123 had mfg date Oct 1971, more evidence.
 
Let me make a correction for 200205. I looked at the next page of the records with the same docket number and the year is clearer. This is all hand written except for the number that is rubber stamped.
Docket 40114 all shipping to Coburn & Hughes on 20.2.73 not 72.
200205 F/B
200211 F/B
200221 F/B
200222 F/B
200225 F/B

One more shipped to Coburn & Hughes
200237 no docket number on 11.2.72 F/B Disc

Confusing as the later number shipped 3 months before the string above. Were they holding back for some reason?
 
illf8ed said:
Docket 40114 all shipping to Coburn & Hughes on 20.2.73 not 72.
Click to expand...


This is getting confusing - that 1973 date ??? would make them all a year late ??
 
illf8ed said:
There may be some evidence. My 201881 has a mfg date Dec 1971 while above 200205 shipped Feb 20, 1972. Looks like later numbers were shipping to the US and earlier numbers shipping later in the UK indicating stock piling or some other reason. My first combat 201123 had mfg date Oct 1971, more evidence.
Click to expand...


illf8ed said:
Confusing as the later number shipped 3 months before the string above. Were they holding back for some reason?
Click to expand...

It's not exactly evidence of stockpiling unless it can be proved that the 2002xx series (which seem to be mostly Fastbacks) were built earlier than 201xxx series.
The fact that many of the 2002xx Fastbacks weren't dispatched for some months, some as late as 2/73 suggests that either they were not all built together, or they were having difficulty selling the (by then) unpopular Fastbacks, so it took a while for the factory to sell them off (probably at a discount) which in my opinion wouldn't be deliberate stockpiling just overproduction of Fastbacks.
 
Perhaps the 1st bikes into the warehouse were the last out !

So if there were early 72 Fastbacks still unsold in early 1973,
could that have delayed the official announcement of the new 850 models ?
Clear the old models before showing the new....
 
It may have happened around a time of the NV moves, latest number was first to move to new premises and later production stacked in front off it. I doubt if they really cared about stock control in those days.
 
Rohan said:
Perhaps the 1st bikes into the warehouse were the last out !
Click to expand...

Without knowing their production procedure it's difficult to say. I would've expected NV to build bikes to order, same as Triumph and BSA, so it's odd they had surplus Fastback stock hanging around for so long unless customers (importers/dealers) altered their orders (to Interstates?) at the last moment which left NV with several assembled but unsold Fastbacks?


Rohan said:
So if there were early 72 Fastbacks still unsold in early 1973,
could that have delayed the official announcement of the new 850 models ?
Clear the old models before showing the new....
Click to expand...

I doubt a few leftover models would. I'm not aware of any delay in the official (UK and US) 850 model release date (7th March '73).

Madnorton said:
It may have happened around a time of the NV moves, latest number was first to move to new premises and later production stacked in front off it. I doubt if they really cared about stock control in those days.
Click to expand...

Only, there wasn't any NV move going on around that time (late '71-early '72).
 
At the Longbridge plant building cars in the late 70's the production lines built to build cards, these were all backed by orders from the sales dept. But the sales dept if they did not have enough customer orders created orders for stock based on their sales forecasts, if the forecasts were wrong then these surplus cars were stuck in various compounds until a matching customer order turned up or were sold at a discount to the dealers so they could put them on the forecourt with a discount.

I don't see Norton or any of the other bike manufacturers operating much different, especially with the dominant US market having such a short selling season they must have been building to forecasts for at least some of the time. With the Fastback going out of favour a few extra being built would have around for sometime.
 
NV did move, there was a move from North Way to Central Way in early 1972 as reported in Motorcycle Sport April '72 which shows the new production building. so the move would have happened at least a few months prior to this date, so they could well of stocked up to cover the move. According to Palin, even this was a temporary move to accommodate increased production of AJS and Norton units - sounds like management talking bulls**t as even he could see what was on the eastern horizon even then and thus the temporary nature.

Strange, that all the people that put these bikes together in Andover, the management of the time etc, all seem to be very dead or do not wish to talk about their exciting times building these bikes. They must be out there as many of the Wolverhampton employees are still about and some still working in the area despite their age.
 
Madnorton said:
NV did move, there was a move from North Way to Central Way in early 1972 as reported in Motorcycle Sport April '72 which shows the new production building.
Click to expand...

Well, NV still gave their Andover address as 'North Way' well into '74.

Madnorton said:
Strange, that all the people that put these bikes together in Andover, the management of the time etc, all seem to be very dead or do not wish to talk about their exciting times building these bikes.
Click to expand...

Considering the Andover workers got the push in '73 after the management decided production should be moved to Wolverhampton it's hardly any wonder, and I expect to many workers it was only a job.
 
illf8ed said:
As no fastback was issued with combat engine....
Click to expand...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NORTON-VILLIE ... QHGmloqdLg

Between #'s 200976 and 211110 all Combats?
 
What a great find LAB, thankyou for that.
Note that date out on the far right (and thats not a political comment !).

BTW, anyone seen a fastback with that combat engine and disc brake ??
Anyone got a pic of one ?
That could be a rare beast ?

P.S. Could the factory have reserved blocks of numbers for particular models,
and so were still building bikes to order long after others in a similar number range ??
Certainly this happened in the 1930s at Nortons ( under different management).
 
Rohan said:
What a great find LAB, thankyou for that.
Note that date out on the far right (and thats not a political comment !).

BTW, anyone seen a fastback with that combat engine and disc brake ??
Anyone got a pic of one ?
That could be a rare beast ?

P.S. Could the factory have reserved blocks of numbers for particular models,
and so were still building bikes to order long after others in a similar number range ??
Certainly this happened in the 1930s at Nortons ( under different management).
Click to expand...


Hi Rohan,

Here you go. Fastback with combat engine and disc brake. :( Just kidding. It's my'72 combat roadster with fastback bodywork.

Between #'s 200976 and 211110 all Combats?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top