Bennetts interview with John Russell

Making the final 40 is interesting, if TVS wanted to wash their hands of the 961 and of the liability for spare parts supply etc then they could have drawn a line under the 961 when they took over and declared it ‘history’ from the ‘old company’.

I believe that by making the final 40 I think they have created both a legal and moral obligation to supply spare parts into the future.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Making the final 40 is interesting, if TVS wanted to wash their hands of the 961 and of the liability for spare parts supply etc then they could have drawn a line under the 961 when they took over and declared it ‘history’ from the ‘old company’.

I believe that by making the final 40 I think they have created both a legal and moral obligation to supply spare parts into the future.
Click to expand...
and or give current employees something to do, and training for new bods etc./clear shelves of otherwise almost worthless components.
 
961 is exactly my point about Norton Motorcycles - why drop it, despite the erratic supply it sold well when it was available. Why, because it is good looking bike, why not re-engine it with a more modern compliant reliable lump and ancillaries. It would be a quick model to market and cheaper way to get another model alongside the Atlas and Ranger, and they would know it would sell.

The SL must deliver was his other words, does it? it was going to be the exclusive model, well if it doesn't deliver, then what, it could make the basis for a very attractive A2 / non A2 powered road bike that would deliver just what is required for many potential owners who could be new to Norton.

I fully understand they have a lot going on, but when a company has read the TM classes from end to end and realised that a belt buckle is not included in any of them and then register it standalone, along with classes that covers clubs, rallies and events, paper and card items not listed elsewhere, secondhand motorcycle sales and repair facilities, digital media and url's, clothing casual and motorcycle protective etc then I don't think it too much to ask what their future is regarding models. You may have seen the old names registered recently but missed these classes - they are what people / clubs / organisations etc will pay to use in royalties. I don't want to buy a nice jacket first, I want to buy the nice Norton first, is that too much to ask. Yes, protect the IP, I get that but I would assume they have teams working down parallel paths with IP and future models.
 
Madnorton said:
Yes, protect the IP, I get that but I would assume they have teams working down parallel paths with IP and future models.
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I would assume likewise.

I just don’t think it’s reasonable to expect a running commentary from them.

We heard NOTHING from Bloor for years until the launch of an entirely new range!

We’ve been told that they’re going to make a final run of 961s starting late this year / early next. Also that V4 production will commence early next year. That the Atlas range will start production late next year. That the SL is still planned along with other versions of the V4. And that longer term, other new variations and new models are being looked at.

That seems like a pretty good initial overview of their plans to me.
 
Since SG is no longer owner of Norton, and his team of engineers and designers are responsible for the atlas and V4 bikes, who will get the credit for their success or failure?

you know SG and SS are fuming.
 
Are you sure SG and SS are fully responsible for the 650 twin and V4 designs.

Aprilia have a joint venture with Zongshen starting in 2008

Piaggio Group signs Memorandum of understanding with Zongshen in commercial vehicles buisness

Signature during the Mayor of Chongqing’s visit to Pontedera Piaggio Commercial Vehicles: approximately 92,000 vehicles sold in the first half of 2008 (+8.9% YoY)
piaggiogroup.com piaggiogroup.com

motorcycles.su

Zongshen Aprilia motorcycle APR125-3 manufactured by Zongshen Piaggio Foshan Motorcycle Enterprise Co., Ltd.

Zongshen Aprilia APR125-3 motorcycle manufactured by Zongshen Piaggio Foshan Motorcycle Enterprise Co., Ltd. - specifications, photos, related info
motorcycles.su motorcycles.su

Zongshen are also the Norton 650 engine manufacturers and are allowed to make their own versions, the 650 is 1/2 a Norton V4.

Norton V4 is developed from the Aprilia V4

Aprilia have a 660 twin formed from 1/2 an Aprilia V4.

www.bennetts.co.uk

FIRST LOOK - New Aprilia RS660 (2020)

98bhp, cornering ABS & wheelie control. We can’t wait!
www.bennetts.co.uk www.bennetts.co.uk

All looking very cosy with shared developments costs and tooling very likely.
 
I thought the bulk of the V4 design work was by Ricardo ?

Despite Skinners claim to have designed by himself on his kitchen table :rolleyes:

I guess Skinner was involved, so is justified some credit. I don’t see Garner having spent much time at the drawing board or CAD screen though somehow...!
 
Ricardo list Piaggio group as a customer, Aprilia being part of the Piaggio group gives the connection.
 
Voodooo said:
Since SG is no longer owner of Norton, and his team of engineers and designers are responsible for the atlas and V4 bikes, who will get the credit for their success or failure?
Click to expand...
Since success has many fathers, failure is an orphan, If any of the new Nortons is a winner, there will be plenty of folks claiming credit for the design.
I do remember reading once Skinner claimed that the V4 was a collaboration between Norton and Ricardo.
Now we all know the affinity that SS and SG had for the Aprilla V4, so the basic layout of the Norton V4 probably shares quite a bit with the Aprilla.
But it certainly wouldn't take much for Ricardo to take the Aprilla design and use it as a design template for the "new" Norton V4.
In the process Ricardo could maybe revise/improve, or fix known short comings of the Aprilla design.
I think that would yield a very mature and sound design, and sufficiently muddy the waters as to who the actual father of the design was.
It's all fun speculation so long as Norton turnout a successful, kick ass V4.
 
I remember SS saying that the Norton will have gear drive cams allowing easy removal for maintenance . Also , this will require less chain length and lower engine height. This should be an improvement , at least in my view . If this is all possible without the need to dump your coolant , remove the radiators and other modern conveniences ?
 
kommando said:
Are you sure SG and SS are fully responsible for the 650 twin and V4 designs.

Aprilia have a joint venture with Zongshen starting in 2008

Piaggio Group signs Memorandum of understanding with Zongshen in commercial vehicles buisness

Signature during the Mayor of Chongqing’s visit to Pontedera Piaggio Commercial Vehicles: approximately 92,000 vehicles sold in the first half of 2008 (+8.9% YoY)
piaggiogroup.com piaggiogroup.com

motorcycles.su

Zongshen Aprilia motorcycle APR125-3 manufactured by Zongshen Piaggio Foshan Motorcycle Enterprise Co., Ltd.

Zongshen Aprilia APR125-3 motorcycle manufactured by Zongshen Piaggio Foshan Motorcycle Enterprise Co., Ltd. - specifications, photos, related info
motorcycles.su motorcycles.su

Zongshen are also the Norton 650 engine manufacturers and are allowed to make their own versions, the 650 is 1/2 a Norton V4.

Norton V4 is developed from the Aprilia V4

Aprilia have a 660 twin formed from 1/2 an Aprilia V4.

www.bennetts.co.uk

FIRST LOOK - New Aprilia RS660 (2020)

98bhp, cornering ABS & wheelie control. We can’t wait!
www.bennetts.co.uk www.bennetts.co.uk

All looking very cosy with shared developments costs and tooling very likely.
Click to expand...
I’m also talking about the whole bike in general not just the engine. It was SG that made it happen, even though he did it the wrong way stealing from people. TVS bought the brand after the new line up already was planned.
 
Reminiscent of Mussolini getting the trains running on time, perhaps? Or remind me.... Just what did the Romans ever do for us?
:)
 
EstuaryBoy said:
Reminiscent of Mussolini getting the trains running on time, perhaps? Or remind me.... Just what did the Romans ever do for us?
:)
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There will be a whole page of things on this subject that would run on and on. . . . . . . . .
 
Fast Eddie said:
I thought the bulk of the V4 design work was by Ricardo ?

Despite Skinners claim to have designed by himself on his kitchen table :rolleyes:

I guess Skinner was involved, so is justified some credit. I don’t see Garner having spent much time at the drawing board or CAD screen though somehow...!
Click to expand...
..
he didn’t need virtual CAD....
 
BritTwit said:
Since success has many fathers, failure is an orphan, If any of the new Nortons is a winner, there will be plenty of folks claiming credit for the design.
I do remember reading once Skinner claimed that the V4 was a collaboration between Norton and Ricardo.
Now we all know the affinity that SS and SG had for the Aprilla V4, so the basic layout of the Norton V4 probably shares quite a bit with the Aprilla.
But it certainly wouldn't take much for Ricardo to take the Aprilla design and use it as a design template for the "new" Norton V4.
In the process Ricardo could maybe revise/improve, or fix known short comings of the Aprilla design.
I think that would yield a very mature and sound design, and sufficiently muddy the waters as to who the actual father of the design was.
It's all fun speculation so long as Norton turnout a successful, kick ass V4.
Click to expand...

difficult bit is finding out the shortcomings IN USE, unless you count corrosion from sitting in living rooms!!
 
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