Belt Drive-Which one?

Taking into account
A) price
B) availability of exchange belts
C) quality and durability of the item
I am keen to here people's views on the Maney option vs others such as RGM etc.
I realise this has probably been asked before but I am about to purchase an option now so I am interested in the views people hold today, not 3-6 months ago.

Cheers

DKT

I've bought 3 from RGM now, and their spares backup is very good - I damaged a belt due to a loose stator nut and got a replacement the next day (but there again I only live 80 miles away!).
Their earlier baskets had dome head screws on the backplate which required the chaincase casting to be trimmed, but the latest ones have countersunk screws, so that issue is gone.

I've heard good reports on the Maney kit too, and they're a similar price - he's also a good guy to deal with.

Other drives are available, but having had a bad experience with another of the suppliers I'll stick to the good guys!

Norvil (Les Emery) version was installed on my bike since before I got it. Replaced the belt once due to oil contamination (via the crankshaft seal), replacement belt quickly delivered. Other than that no issues whatsoever.

Not especially to recommend Norvil, but he will supply the drive in about any final ratio you like. Most of the other are locked into a few and rather high ratios, like the RGM kit, lowest ratio is something like a 20 tooth drive sprocket. I don't have belt drive, but I don't want to go past a 19 tooth ratio, the way I ride. So I'd choose the Norvil only because of that if I did it.

Dave
69S

If you shop around you can buy replacement belts from engineering suppliers at a considerable saving. I bought one for about half what a dealer wants.

Ian

I have the RGM unit and like it very much. It is light and the AT10 SYNCROFLEX belt is probably top of the line and attainable locally.
That being said, I might have gone with the Maney knowing what I know now. I believe they may be slightly heavier but less prone to thermal expansion of the hubs. In "MY" RGM system, the belt needs to be adjusted quite loose or things will get tight and clutch function deminishes. Adjustable ratios of the Maney are also a plus.

Hey check this out for custom length AT10 teeth belts to compensate for pulley size and adjustment range.

http://www.brecoflex.com/download/field_connections.pdf

So which is stronger tooth form?

pvisseriii said:

.... and the AT10 SYNCROFLEX belt is probably top of the line ...

Click to expand...

Actually no, there are far better profiles and the capacity of the steel and glass/kevlar fibre belts is actually too low anyway. I've done some calculations on most available belt drives and all of them are run in an aera which is not covered by the manufacturers' standards. IIRC the AT10 theoretically needed to be 120mm wide in order to cope even with standard Norton crankshaft power and simply has no approval for speeds over 4000rpm on the driving pulley. So what is sold is far outside the manufacturers' specs and only works because people obviously give a sh*t on these specs. The only belt which can be made to work within specs is the relatively new Gates Poly Chain GT Carbon.

I actually have an AT10 on my Atlas and I'm far from happy with it. 6000 km and the belt develops signs of overstressing like worn Nylon coverage and break-outs on the edges etc. I'm currently staying with this and replace the belt - which is dirt cheap bought from industrial suppliers - but in the long run I'd like to get rid of it. As it's an Atlas I'm even thinking of going back to a single row chain and the two Commandos "in the making" will keep the triplex chain.

Just my €0.02.


Tim

Note the Heavy Duty Tooth HDT form on the carbon Gates
http://www.gates.com/brochure.cfm?broch ... n_id=11347



Huh, its blue
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEU-Mbyw0sk[/video]

hobot said:

Note the Heavy Duty Tooth HDT form on the carbon Gates

Click to expand...

a) it is HTD aka High Torque drive, b) the Poly Chain GT has a unique profile known as GT2 and not a HTD profile. GT2 belts and sprockets are not interchangeable with HTD equivalents AFAIK.


Tim

Tintin said:

pvisseriii said:

.... and the AT10 SYNCROFLEX belt is probably top of the line ...

Click to expand...

Actually no, there are far better profiles and the capacity of the steel and glass/kevlar fibre belts is actually too low anyway. I've done some calculations on most available belt drives and all of them are run in an aera which is not covered by the manufacturers' standards. IIRC the AT10 theoretically needed to be 120mm wide in order to cope even with standard Norton crankshaft power and simply has no approval for speeds over 4000rpm on the driving pulley. So what is sold is far outside the manufacturers' specs and only works because people obviously give a sh*t on these specs. The only belt which can be made to work within specs is the relatively new Gates Poly Chain GT Carbon.


Just my €0.02.


Tim

Click to expand...

I agree with Tim. I also went through the manufactuers standards when I was looking for a replacement for my 500 race bike and discovered none of the belts I could find were inside the recomended operating limits on the bike. Especially rpm and torque for sprocket size. And no sizes which were practical to fit would meet the specs either.

But there are a lot of belts in use especially on race bikes. I have now broken two belts but in both cases I beleive it was due to stone damage. So I think the belts have enough over engineering to take the out of spec abuse we give them. For a race bike with the advantages of light weight and range of high end racing clutches available I will continue to use a belt. With a stone sheild and inspection every race.

But i wouldnt use them on my street bike.

John

To follow along DogT's train of thought, the variety of ratios offered by Norvil (or anyone else for that matter) give you the option of speeding up your gearbox if you want to.
This enables you to raise your overall gearing via the primary drive.
It also makes the kickstarting effort slightly lower because the "speed-up" ratio from clutch to crankshaft is reduced.

Martin

It is a trade off then. Lower service life for a belt is balanced by lighter weight and
more importantly, longer life for the poor old gearbox.
Belts arent terribly expensive and changing out isnt that much of a bother.
Think of lifespan of rear tires. not much compared to a belt yet we live with it.

About the only thing that differs in belt drives is the construction and materials of the clutch basket and type of belt teeth. The T count of clutch baskets can't differ much d/t the clutch plate size so its just the front pulley T count you can alter to matter. Counter sunk front pulley side plate fasteners is way to go on front pulley. HDT teeth profile is strongest type so far.
Here's past Peel's Dreer sold Haywood drive but next Peel has a 40 mm Maney drive.

Tintin said:

pvisseriii said:

.... and the AT10 SYNCROFLEX belt is probably top of the line ...

Click to expand...

Actually no, there are far better profiles and the capacity of the steel and glass/kevlar fibre belts is actually too low anyway. I've done some calculations on most available belt drives and all of them are run in an aera which is not covered by the manufacturers' standards. IIRC the AT10 theoretically needed to be 120mm wide in order to cope even with standard Norton crankshaft power and simply has no approval for speeds over 4000rpm on the driving pulley. So what is sold is far outside the manufacturers' specs and only works because people obviously give a sh*t on these specs. The only belt which can be made to work within specs is the relatively new Gates Poly Chain GT Carbon.

I actually have an AT10 on my Atlas and I'm far from happy with it. 6000 km and the belt develops signs of overstressing like worn Nylon coverage and break-outs on the edges etc. I'm currently staying with this and replace the belt - which is dirt cheap bought from industrial suppliers - but in the long run I'd like to get rid of it. As it's an Atlas I'm even thinking of going back to a single row chain and the two Commandos "in the making" will keep the triplex chain.

Just my €0.02.


Tim

Click to expand...

OK. The key word here was “probably”.
This is all great in theory but not too applicable. I have searched for this Gate belt and although not completely proprietary, finding the right size and the ability to fit a particular hub configuration is daunting to say the least. In our case that would be 10mm pitch, 32mm width, 89 teeth in an AT10 configuration. I appreciate your input but would rather have a part number and an outlet, if you please.

The spec sheets I have seen show this AT10 synchroflex rated at 15000rpm and load rating of 1400n (whatever that means) per 10mm of width.
Unless we each decide to go into a R+D phase and start hobbing up our own hubs, we’re sort of stuck with what’s available. I grant you, it is "probably" not the best belt in the world but unless someone offers a "real" alternative, it's best for my application. Maybe the steel belted synchroflex® at10 generation iii might do well or maybe this one http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/GOODYE ... Pid=search. These are real and attainable items that fit what I have.

http://www.transdev.co.uk/catalogues/po ... _specs.pdf

With regard to the Norvil belt drive, I and a friend of mine have both had the keeper plate on the front pulley break off through fatigue, the fracture going through two of the holes in the keeper plate in my case.

I found a third of the plate in the bottom of the chaincase, and my friend was left high and dry when his belt turned to "candy floss"
as it chewed itself to bits on nearby parts. I would like to add that we both run MK3's and I'm not sure if the front pulley plate design is different to the earlier models, such as more shallow?

The cure was to have a steel keeper plates made to replace the anodised alluminium originals.

I would get a Maney or RGM belt if they made them for a MK3, but they don't.

Has anybody tried this setup?

http://www.quietpowerdrive.com/QPDhtm/P ... Drives.htm

This was one of the first belt drives i looked at when researching , just after I bought my bike, this and Tony Haywoods, so once I found this forum and joined i was very suprised to see nothing on the Quiet Power given that it is made in the States. I figured it must've have been tried and found wanting????
Would love to here any feed back if anyone is running them
Regards Mike

I have tried email and calling many times to QPD. They never respond/answer. Aparently they do not want to sell their products. They have had an ES conversion for years, but if you can't contact them what good is it.

I have used an Hayward belt drive in a modified Triumph 750 for many years. I have put over 10,000 miles on it without problems. Probably the belt should be replaced now just because of it's age. I think I will run it until it breaks. When it does break it is not likely to cause any problems. When a chain breaks often parts inside the primary will break. The Hayward system uses the AT 10 syncroflex belt. I think the Gates Polychain belt is a bit better, but the AT 10 works really well too. Gates belts are not available in as many stock lengths as the AT10. It may be true that the belt rating for industrial use will show that we are over reving these belts in a motorcycle application, and also we are putting a lot more than the recommended torque as well. But those ratings are for industrial use. For industrial use you would want the belt to last more than a year of continuous use. At work we use Gates Poly Chain belts and they last more than a year. They are better than chains or even gears for use in drill heads.

The chains that are used on motorcycles are not rated for the RPM or torque used on a motorcycle either. Not in the industrial design charts anyway. Probably the chain ratings are even lower than the belt ratings.

Most parts of a motorcycle are not made to last like industrial equipment. If they were the motorcycles would be really heavy and would last forever.