Barking mad?

You'll have to forgive what might be a really stupid idea...But I was wondering if anyone had thought of trying to plumb one of these...



into fullauto's new cylinder heads?

I was reading the thread about the 8v head with great interest, started thinking...

Found this on YT, something very similar...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHITQXRMGqI

Thoughts?

Hegel said:

You'll have to forgive what might be a really stupid idea...But I was wondering if anyone had thought of trying to plumb one of these...

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Yes - and then had a look at the crank again. :mrgreen:

AFAIK the smallest one is the Ogura TX01 - which delivers 100cm³/rev. Depending on the ratio this should be quite a toy - until you start looking at the crank. :mrgreen:


Tim

P.S.: Did I mention the crank? :twisted:

Reverse the Head or engine , to keep induction tracts straight , so as to position it Fwd of Injun at axle hight to keep centre of gravity low for max. acceleration .

Or Fit to a streamliner .

Buy Shares in the JRS crankcase company , you gonna need them .

Tintin,

Lol...Yeah I think a rev limiter would be in order. I was looking at the Asin AMR500 charger.

Here...

http://superchargersunlimited.com/specs.html

Would you guys not think the Maney crank, standard cases strong enough, if you limited the boost to say +1? I was pondering something that might be useful long term, rather than needing a new engine every 2 hours :mrgreen:

S

Hegel said:

Tintin,

Lol...Yeah I think a rev limiter would be in order. I was looking at the Asin AMR500 charger.

Here...

http://superchargersunlimited.com/specs.html

Would you guys not think the Maney crank, standard cases strong enough, if you limited the boost to say +1? I was pondering something that might be useful long term, rather than needing a new engine every 2 hours :mrgreen:

S

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The standard crank (with all its design compromises) appears to be up to the task. The real killer of Norton twin crankshaft is excessive RPM. I ran 10 psi boost with Drouin & 10.25:1 compression ratio w/o problems and have never heard of a failure (street use) of a Norton crank or crankcase while supercharged. I did experience one failed main bearing (NJ306E) where the inner race began to exhibit brinelling. This may have been due to the blower but more likely due to imprudent use of heat to install the inner race.

Unless you pull the mixture through the blower, via a SU you will need some controlled injection system plus a load of other tackle.
Keep the boost at 2-3 psi,other wise its lower comp. Properly set up supercharged engines run very sweet. with a exhaust note to die for...incorrectly set up...well it's melt down!

The issue with positive displace Compressors, [which Are Not Blowers], is they always out put a set ratio of boost per rpm to the engine so must be careful at low down lugging speeds not to detonate and comes on as hard hit that drive train and tire grip might not stand. Norton cranks are up to the torque loads just not the whiplash jump rope center loads of jerking pistons down at some rpm. But then again with boost pressure helping shove pistons down its a way to extend rpm limits of pistons and crank provided pistons don't melt through. This immediate onset of full boost ratio is the reason most must lower the CR or go boom, which takes some to the benefits of low boost in public away. Also limits the power increase to top rpm as engine begins to be able to take more than the set volume per turn feeding can supply ie: the power curve falls off like natural fed engines. So tricky to size compressor for wide range use. Also can't use much of over lapping cam profile or just blow out at low rpm and then shut the valves at rpm rise before the full ram fill benefit can act. It would be a stunt puller torque monster but not necessarily a land speeder unless geared impractical for public. Most importantly is the harshness of throttle response when leaned over. It would be the cat's meow on a righteous chopper of course.

Boost up to ~ 10 PSI its easy to use a draw through carb or needle flat slide gravity feed injector but after that its harder to feed enough mixture so most use a push through float bowl carb that needs all leaks to atmosphere sealed so all its ports/vents see the same boost pressure. There may of been but I can't remember any reports of boosted Notons sticking with a vacuum or pressure regulated throttle opening carb. EFI of course only requires a good computer course under belt to dial in for each detonation sensitive change of component, fuel or tune. Its be just the thing for 16" Harley wide tire on a righteous chopper.

The frist Drouins were + displacement soon discarded for the turbo type blower. There have been a few + displacment installed in custom specials featured in bike mags last few years. All them end with will get back once the fueling is dial in to make road practical. I quite holding breath on the follow ups.

Overview boosted motorcycle types and characteristics
http://www.thefang.co.uk/superchargers.htm

supercharged-atlas-t11495.html


http://www.goldammercycle.com/collection/nortorious

http://www.dhgate.com/amr300-supercharg ... 26886.html

If It Ain't Blown It just sucks.
http://www.audioworld.net/BSA/forum/ind ... 382.0.html

ludwig said:

And after the crank comes the primary drive , clutch and gearbox .
Save some money for a TTI box ..

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The crankshaft is a non issue as is the primary drive. The sintered bronze plates will slip; replace with Barnett plates and then the lay shaft and main shafts will bend and break if one is the slightest bit careless with shifting. TTI gear boxes are top notch and up for the task.

Been there, done that, and about to do it again.

Been there, done that, and about to do it again.

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Now that's what I wanted to hear, ya can't get it out of your bones before ya go.
With a blown torque monster which version of TTI tranny would you order?
I've read a number of reports of Drouin users living with AMC boxes lifting front on every gear roll ons so assume with some throttle care one can get away with it short of slam bam max clutch drop 1/4 ET take offs. I think the TTI 4 sp side car version might be the most cost effective. You definitely wont to go far with only 520 width chain teeth.

Dances with Shrapnel said:

Been there, done that, and about to do it again.

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[x] Send pix! :mrgreen:


Tim

hobot said:

Been there, done that, and about to do it again.

Click to expand...

Now that's what I wanted to hear, ya can't get it out of your bones before ya go.
With a blown torque monster which version of TTI tranny would you order?
I've read a number of reports of Drouin users living with AMC boxes lifting front on every gear roll ons so assume with some throttle care one can get away with it short of slam bam max clutch drop 1/4 ET take offs. I think the TTI 4 sp side car version might be the most cost effective. You definitely wont to go far with only 520 width chain teeth.

Click to expand...

Yep, that about somes it up; "bite the snake that bit you" syndrome.

My first Drouin in the 1970's was on an 850 and would do a front wheel lift upon roll on. I trashed the AMC box innards with it numerous times. Gears and lay shafts and main shafts would go away but in fairnest I may have been damaging layshafts with bent main shafts. I never tried an agggressive launch with it but hard shifts from first to second it did not like.

See Bruce Verdon's TTI website; we are going with an Extra Heavy Duty five speed.

Tintin said:

[x] Send pix! Tim

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There should be a blog sometime in the not too distant future. You will know when you see it.

Boy oh Boy am I grinning and trembling inside reading about your roll on wheelies. I've candy cane'd main shafts and removed 3rd gear teeth contesting with Ducati's and GRSX's and such in the heats with just accidental on purpose 'super duper' Combat power. Dissapointed no end till shot out the baffle cap on a 1.5" 2>1 long dong megaphone then almost crashed first times on throttle snaps to end up on rear fender till automatic reflex returned to grip hard and plant butt 1st. Reflexes that flashed me back almost to my P!! dragster pull. I know I'll not be able to snap throttle on next Ms Peel with Quafe shell and AMC guts but hoping she will be light enough with me to really take off well or just spin tire or slip clutch to protect the drive train until a windfall to afford a TTI.

Researching for years on the blower characteristics and issues to tune them made me see the wisdom of the turbo fan types over the positive displacement kind. Softer progressive power hits that increase with speed not harsh hits down low. I found the lack of top end power-speed to be the weakness of our old clunkers not the pulls into or out of turns up to the ton. If not for the re-engineer'd Drouin I'd shop turbos to belt drive.

Every reference to high torque engines in bikes or cars, they state they don't need lower gears just stay in upper ones and hang on or smoke tire. So my tranny plan is fit the lowest creeping 1st gear for the instant break loose or lift up like the stunt bikes and trials bikes use, then tallest 2nd ratio for 100 mph and close 3rd to keep rpms in safe range to 130 or so then 4th to cruise and hit top speeds. Ms Peel has side car plans with a trailer to track days and sand dunes.

I hate unintended wheelies but love floating the front level so Peel will have tuck down front and rear to resist front lift except in the sideways laid over full wheelies. If no one else does sideways wheelies that sharpen decreasing radius turns w/o sliding, oh well, all's I can say is ya don't know what ya missing out on. But that's only phase 3 handling, there's two more faster ways beyond that but only, IF you've enough power on tap and can hook it up. No fully heated balloon race only tire I've tired can hold those loads on edge, pashaw.

I think the best stance for cornering is front high rear low, just the opposite of sprinting needs and modern corner cripples. If ya got power and traction enough the front lifts out of traction so only the rear rules the roost. If you load the front you unload the rear so can't accelerate w/o spinning more, duh. I love the bee line G's but in turns i get that plus the side G's so extra thrilling reason for blower power coming on smoothly w/o end of torque rise or interruption of pull to shift...

Barking and hollowing at the full moon like you and other mad men.

A few more questions for you guys

For the TTi box...Is it a case of; "If you have to ask the question, you can't afford it?" :shock:

I ask as there doesn't seem to be a price on the website. Even a ball park figure would kind of handy to know

I saw on the Andover site a 'new' complete gearbox, with standard ratios is about £1,600...

How does the TTi compare to the Quaife box, in terms of strength and price?

Hegel said:

A few more questions for you guys

For the TTi box...Is it a case of; "If you have to ask the question, you can't afford it?" :shock:

I ask as there doesn't seem to be a price on the website. Even a ball park figure would kind of handy to know

I saw on the Andover site a 'new' complete gearbox, with standard ratios is about £1,600...

How does the TTi compare to the Quaife box, in terms of strength and price?

Click to expand...

Hegel,

Just purchased two, one for the concept bike and another for the Nourish Weslake Seeley F750 road racer for AHRMA.

5 Speed HD AMC gearbox with magnesium cases; 17 & 18T sprockets: NZ$ 4,800
5 Speed XHD AMC gearbox with magnesium cases & kick start; 19T & 20T sprockets NZ$ 5,300

Personaly, with the TTI gearboxes and other options out there, I would not mess with a Quaiff. It sounds like it would take a lifetime of learning about new Quaiffe parts versus old Quaiffe parts, what works and what does not. I have been running a five speed and six speed in the two race Seeleys; basically install them and more or less forget about them and move onto the next weak link. Gear change with the TTI gearbox is crisp, clean and precise. I have yet to miss a shift on these boxes.

When comparing a Quaiffe to a TTI, one must ask what the price of failure is for a given application. If it is road going then perhaps it is a tow home or getting thrown from the bike and run over. On a track there are costs of travel and accomodations, track fees, missed opportunities for track time and podium time as well as getting thrown off and run over. For the reliability, the price is a bargain. I have yet to hear of a TTI gearbox failure (other than one where the owner neglected to fill the box with lubricant).

Why not go all the way?



http://www.vortechonline.com/jets/

Holy Boost Batman! MPG?

Diablouph said:

Why not go all the way?



http://www.vortechonline.com/jets/

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Why build when you can buy: http://www.jetcatusa.com/compare-rc-turbines.html

I figure four of the P200-SX model; twenty pounds weight and 180lbs thrust. The type of engines that keep on giving and giving beyond 250 mph.

Wrong choice, you need ex military helicopter engines like in the Y2K turbine bike. I almost had one for free way back in A&P school, until told the instructer what I was going to use it for.

bwolfie said:

Wrong choice, you need ex military helicopter engines like in the Y2K turbine bike. I almost had one for free way back in A&P school, until told the instructer what I was going to use it for.

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What!?!?! Wrong choice? :shock:

Don't you think an ex military helicopter engine is a bit excessive here? :lol:

Last I checked most basic beefed up TTI 4 sp would set ya back over $3500 and beefier version I desire a bit over $4000 us dollars half a decade ago. I hope my Qaufe case can just take standard guts in the mean time.

But here's the site to give em a ping to sleep restless on.
http://www.ttindustries.com/products.html