B17 down

texasSlick said:
Tragic loss of life and heartbreaking loss of irreplaceable vintage aircraft.
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Lifes are irreplacable, aircrafts are not (even vintage aircrafts can be replaced/rebuilt).
What did really happen here, apart from the fact that a P63 pilot clipped the tail of a B17?
Was the former warned of his heading intersecting trajectory of the B17?
I hope he wasn't on a suicide mission ....

- Knut
 
The video's narrator says visibility is poor on that P63 aircraft. Looks like it is pretty good actually.

ANY aircraft performing that maneuver would have bad visibility on the B17 below it.
 
I was at the Shoreham air show in 2007 when the Hawker Hurricane crashed into the raised ground near Bramber Abbey.

And was there again in 2015 when the Hawker Hunter crashed onto the A27 killing 11 and injuring 16, but the pilot survived.

In both cases it was deeply affecting and I can still hear/feel the wumph as they hit the ground when I think of them years later.
The Hurricane crashed about half a mile, and the Hunter about 300 yards from me and my family.

I involuntarily said rather loudly "he's too fu**ing low" when the Hunter did the manoeuvre just before the crash. Several people
looked around at me with distain for swearing so loudly. Sadly I was correct.

As said above; totally tragic when these events happen.
 
What I seen is the B17 was on a straight course and the other not so straight.
 
ashman said:
What I seen is the B17 was on a straight course and the other not so straight.
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Correct. The two smaller planes were attempting some kind of "join up" and the one that hit the B17 never had his eyes on it, or he probably could have missed it.
 
They are flying airplanes that were not and are not entirely stable and hardly what we might call safe. By that I mean they are twitchy and closer to the edge of instability than a normal small aircraft. They were flown by young men with not a lot of flight time and the number of accidents back in the day was high. Now they are flown by men who do not have a lot of time in them and do not spend most or all of their time in that type. These aircraft are also old and they try not to horse them around like when they had 50 hours on them. So add all this up and sh_t happens.
It happens too often. Sure, go ahead, do demonstration flights but no more zooming about. No more formation stuff it is just pointless. Low altitude mistakes are almost always fatal. What a shame.
 
Onder said:
They are flying airplanes that were not and are not entirely stable and hardly what we might call safe. By that I mean they are twitchy and closer to the edge of instability than a normal small aircraft. They were flown by young men with not a lot of flight time and the number of accidents back in the day was high. Now they are flown by men who do not have a lot of time in them and do not spend most or all of their time in that type. These aircraft are also old and they try not to horse them around like when they had 50 hours on them. So add all this up and sh_t happens.
It happens too often. Sure, go ahead, do demonstration flights but no more zooming about. No more formation stuff it is just pointless. Low altitude mistakes are almost always fatal. What a shame.
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I can remember reading about how many pilots died in training and in non combat accidents during ww2
The figures were truly shocking
And this was with new aircraft!
I'd never want to see a time when these shows didn't go ahead because the sight and sound of these aircraft are amazing so I agree let's not have so many up in one go and tame it a little
Or the shows will end up as history more sooner than later
 
'Not looking good for the P63F pilot'

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
They make a very valid point about low altitude. So many airshow crashes are because they want to do stuff right in front of the fans. But low and slow there is no way to recover. You need altitude and separation. Lessons old but they will have to be relearned or I agree airshows will be history.
BTW accidents were 1/3 of lost aircraft in WW2.
 
Onder said:
They make a very valid point about low altitude. So many airshow crashes are because they want to do stuff right in front of the fans. But low and slow there is no way to recover. You need altitude and separation. Lessons old but they will have to be relearned or I agree airshows will be history.
BTW accidents were 1/3 of lost aircraft in WW2.
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The very first thing a aero club instructor told me while I was on his course....height is safety
 
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A WW2 fighter,if you stall it, takes pretty near 10k feet to recover. Down low, most of these ships are not handy. They are designed for mid to high level work. The 63 had to pull a tight turn as he was moving fast. Physics works against you. Why all those airplanes were all at nearly the same altitude and proximity is just foolish. And formation flying is something for pilots that do it everyday. Ask Chuck Yeager.
 
Onder said:
BTW accidents were 1/3 of lost aircraft in WW2.
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Interesting (did not know that), but not surprising. Believe most pilots were in their teens or early 20s. And don't think there were simulators BITD nor robust safety features. Quantity, not quality.

As for airshows, i don't patronize them. Luckily there were no spectator causalities
 
gortnipper said:
Pretty good analysis of the crash using flight data and video. Not looking good for the P63F pilot, as he looks like the one who lost situational awareness.

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Yes I watched that video. Make several points about the design of the P63 that decrease a pilot's sight lines. Cockpit basically over the wings. Forward retractable nose gear makes for extra long, higher nose section, lower wing position. More structural elements in the canopy making bigger blind spots.
 
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